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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 12:55:25 GMT
Is there any type of goods or services that can supply the economy of outer solar system? Plz stop mentioning 3he , there are really good alternative to it. For example , a 1 GW DT fusion reaction only use 100 kg of d and 300 kg of lithium per year.
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Post by deltav on Mar 5, 2017 12:59:46 GMT
Is there any type of goods or services that can supply the economy of outer solar system? Plz stop mentioning 3he , there are really good alternative to it. For example , a 1 GW DT fusion reaction only use 100 kg of d and 300 kg of lithium per year. Everything. The Belt is full of Rocks. Edit: There is no reason that Space Islands can't be as much places of commerce and innovation as anywhere in the inner solar system. One of the biggest hurdles is the weaker sunlight, which limits the benefit of solar power. But nuclear power and well designed solar systems can negate that. Check out Isaac Arthur. He goes into depth about all these issues, and he really knows his stuff. www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W7IRBeDkj4 |
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 14:58:30 GMT
Well the video only explain the economy of titan the moon. Also , it seen that he forgot to mention that outer system have REALLY few fissile material , for example , a meteorite only have 0.008 ppm of uranium in it , while on Terra a concentration of 100 ppm of uranium depot is consider as low concentration , so I doubt if it is economily viable to extract and sell it in outer systems. Also , anything on Europa's seafloor will suffer from huge water pressure , I calculate it with information and useful link on Google and found that the europa seafloor pressure is about 1300 atm , or larger than the pressure at challenge deep (~1100 atm), making it extremely hard and/or not economily viable to extract material for construction of submarine cities.
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Post by deltav on Mar 5, 2017 15:01:43 GMT
Well the video only explain the economy of titan the moon. Also , it seen that he forgot to mention that outer system have REALLY few fissile material , for example , a meteorite only have 0.008 ppm of uranium in it , while aon Terra a concentration of 100 ppm of uranium depot is consider as low concentration , so I doubt if it is economily viable to extract and sell it in outer systems. Also , anything on Europa's seafloor will suffer from huge water pressure , I calculate it with information and useful link on Google and found that the europa seafloor pressure is about 1300 ATM , or larger than the pressure at challenge deep , making it extremely hard to extract material for construction of submarine cities. He talks about all of that, and he talks about every moon and asteroid (not just Titan), but goes into deep detail about Titan because it is something like 60% of all the mass of non planets in the outer solar system. It's worth it to watch the full 26 minute video, it's really good. Also check out the video on asteroid mining, and on nuclear fission. If you don't feel like watching the first video I sent, I get it. But it's worth it. The video talks about all the points you brought up so far and he goes into deep detail about how to solve those problems. He has done more research on this than anyone else I've heard of and the videos are entertaining. |
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 15:08:09 GMT
In addition , asteroids 's economy is based on platinum(or metal in its group) mining , which is using as catalyst on petroleum powered car , and because there is no known alternative to it , the platinum producer can sell their product at a ridiculous price. However , after the oil age (which end around 2060 or faster due to peak oil) there will be no more really important use of platinum , its price drop dramatically , which make it not economily viable to extract and sell it on asteroid , at least on large scale (maybe 500 tons per years).
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 15:10:39 GMT
Well the video only explain the economy of titan the moon. Also , it seen that he forgot to mention that outer system have REALLY few fissile material , for example , a meteorite only have 0.008 ppm of uranium in it , while aon Terra a concentration of 100 ppm of uranium depot is consider as low concentration , so I doubt if it is economily viable to extract and sell it in outer systems. Also , anything on Europa's seafloor will suffer from huge water pressure , I calculate it with information and useful link on Google and found that the europa seafloor pressure is about 1300 ATM , or larger than the pressure at challenge deep , making it extremely hard to extract material for construction of submarine cities. He talks about all of that. It's worth it to watch the full 26 minute video, it's really good. Also check out the video on asteroid mining, and on nuclear fission. If you don't feel like watching it, I get it. But it's worth it. The video talks about all the points you brought up so far and he goes into deep detail about how to solve those problems. He has done more research on this than anyone else I've heard of. Alright I will watch the other two videos NOW |
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Post by deltav on Mar 5, 2017 15:17:51 GMT
In addition , asteroids 's economy is based on platinum(or metal in its group) mining , which is using as catalyst on petroleum powered car , and because there is no known alternative to it , the platinum producer can sell their product at a ridiculous price. However , after the oil age (which end around 2060 or faster due to peak oil) there will be no more really important use of platinum , its price drop dramatically , which make it not economily viable to extract and sell it on asteroid , at least on large scale (maybe 500 tons per years). Agree with the first part sort of, but can't agree with the second part. He mentions that the asteroids are full of any minerals you can name including gold, silver, whatever you want. He goes over the lack of Uranium too, but has a solution for that. Essentially solar and breeder reactors. As far as Platinum it has tons of uses, and it is rare, and that is valuable all by itself. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum#Other_uses |
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Post by deltav on Mar 5, 2017 15:33:45 GMT
Short story, there is gold, silver, platinum, whatever you want in them there asteroids.
Because asteroids have such low gravity, you don't even need heavy equipment to mine it, it's mostly loose gravel.
You can hollow the asteroids out and put an O'neill Cylinder inside, and get spin gravity in the larger ones to use as a base.
Special "sock ships" that wrap around the asteroids can be used to move them for processing if desired.
The rings of Saturn are mostly ice, so plenty of hydrogen there, and water that can be used for drinking.
The low gravity of Titan can be settled by humans, and they won't need to wear pressure suits, only a breather mask and thick winter clothing.
The gravity is strong enough to walk more or less normally, but weak enough to be about as easy to launch from as the moon.
Also other moons have similar advantages for other purposes depending on what is needed.
The biggest obstacle is the weak sunlight compared to the inner solar system, but huge paper thin space mirrors can be built to overcome this and to focus the sunlight on large solar panels. Uranium is rare in the outer solar system, but there is plenty of other things to use for fuel, and with breeder tech, small amounts of uranium can be stretched to last for decades or even longer until fusion is developed, which would be even better out in the outer solar system.
Essentially there are lots of places to live and lots of juicy resources to mine. Power is no issue and the "sky" isn't even the limit.
Their economy might be quite like ours. Many different company including mining, industry you name it.
And of course where there is mining and industry, there has to be all the other businesses that support the people there.
So with enough people and development, you'll get your space McDonalds, and space clothing malls, and internet providers and whatever else people want and need.
This is maybe 5-10 minutes of that video. And he has thought of things I never have and goes into detail.
I would love to talk more about this, just wanted to share an amazing video series from someone who specializes in this stuff.
Then we can talk about this with so much background that's all.
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 15:57:46 GMT
OK now i accept that asteroid mining can be profitable in long term. However , the uranium problem in saturnian system remain unsolved. Yea you can have some uranium shipped from terra , but it is the backbone of the economy of saturnian system , so that mean you still didn't solve the saturnian economic problem because you didn't have something to exchange within the system.
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 15:59:52 GMT
And where is the video about the nuclear fission? I can't find it...
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 5, 2017 16:01:00 GMT
(The lack of fission material is why nuclear fusion technology development is so important...)
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 16:05:31 GMT
(The lack of fission material is why nuclear fusion technology development is so important...) Yea fusion is important for outer system... research bases at least... |
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Post by deltav on Mar 5, 2017 16:12:39 GMT
OK now i accept that asteroid mining can be profitable in long term. However , the uranium problem in saturnian system remain unsolved. Yea you can have some uranium shipped from terra , but it is the backbone of the economy saturnian system , so that mean you still didn't solve the saturnian economic problem because you didn't have something to exchange within the system. Lack of uranium is not a problem. Plenty of sunlight to collect, and a little Uranium will go a long way. Talking about intersystem exchange, a good model would be early America or Australia. At first much has to be shipped from "back home", but with time... Use your imagination. The point is to get started, and get money flowing in. With that money, comes people who want to sell stuff to you, and with that comes more and more complex levels of economics and integration. All the gold ever mined wouldn't fill two olympic sized swimming pools. If you can find an asteroid mining vein with even 1/8 of that, you'd be having so many people trying to find another one, it would be like a second 49er gold rush. The main problem really isn't anything to do with the outer solar system, but the cost of the initial investment to get profits flowing and basic infrastructure set up. At that point, the solar system is your oyster. |
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Post by deltav on Mar 5, 2017 16:20:24 GMT
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 5, 2017 16:28:15 GMT
OK now i accept that asteroid mining can be profitable in long term. However , the uranium problem in saturnian system remain unsolved. Yea you can have some uranium shipped from terra , but it is the backbone of the economy saturnian system , so that mean you still didn't solve the saturnian economic problem because you didn't have something to exchange within the system. Lack of uranium is not a problem. Plenty of sunlight to collect, and a little Uranium will go a long way. Talking about intersystem exchange, a good model would be early America or Australia. At first much has to be shipped from "back home", but with time... Use your imagination. The point is to get started, and get money flowing in. With that money, comes people who want to sell stuff to you, and with that comes more and more complex levels of economics and integration. All the gold ever mined wouldn't fill two olympic sized swimming pools. If you can find an asteroid mining vein with even 1/8 of that, you'd be having so many people trying to find another one, it would be like a second 49er gold rush. The main problem really isn't anything to do with the outer solar system, but the cost of the initial investment to get profits flowing and basic infrastructure set up. At that point, the solar system is your oyster. But you need some sort of initial industry to kick start the economy and attract people to colonize the saturnian system , and the video think the exchange of the uranium and nitrogen within the moon of the system is that initial industry , which i think it is not economically viable. BTW i am going to sleep now , see you tomorrow~ |
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