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Post by argonbalt on Mar 7, 2017 2:15:22 GMT
I myself believe that even in CoaDE universe, robots and AIs must present. It would be a matter of time until the best scientists redevelop AI if none survived the cataclysm, and then the production will fall into these robots' hands. In real world, if nothing happened, I believe that the virtual population would outnumber people pretty fast. This is the part I'd suggest a rewrite, but I guess it'd just put down the reason to lie the middle-class people that they were not living on someone else's back, because they literally don't. Robots are not sapient, and thus they can work indefinitely. Note, I think RFP is like Alexander the Great's conquest: Brutal, but successful (Alexander's army killed every male in cities he passed through so there's no resistance, RFP army nuked every cities so there's no resistance). Once again i re-iterate that there are many laughably inefficient and unethical elements present, but that these should not be taken too seriously. COADE is about spaceships fighting. Outside of prostitution, ice mining and shoe production are handled better by machines anyways. To make this as clear as possible the COADE tagline is: THE MOST SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE SPACE WARFARE SIM EVER MADE
NOT
THE MOST SOCIOLOGICALLY ACCURATE FUTURE CIVILISATION PROJECTION
The campaign is a great morally grey or black narrative to help frame a reason for the tin cans fighting in the wars in the stars, i think people are reading too much into the physics accuracy as some kind of societal accuracy which it is clearly not.
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 7, 2017 2:42:52 GMT
I myself believe that even in CoaDE universe, robots and AIs must present. It would be a matter of time until the best scientists redevelop AI if none survived the cataclysm, and then the production will fall into these robots' hands. In real world, if nothing happened, I believe that the virtual population would outnumber people pretty fast. This is the part I'd suggest a rewrite, but I guess it'd just put down the reason to lie the middle-class people that they were not living on someone else's back, because they literally don't. Robots are not sapient, and thus they can work indefinitely. Note, I think RFP is like Alexander the Great's conquest: Brutal, but successful (Alexander's army killed every male in cities he passed through so there's no resistance, RFP army nuked every cities so there's no resistance). Once again i re-iterate that there are many laughably inefficient and unethical elements present, but that these should not be taken too seriously. COADE is about spaceships fighting. Outside of prostitution, ice mining and shoe production are handled better by machines anyways. To make this as clear as possible the COADE tagline is: THE MOST SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE SPACE WARFARE SIM EVER MADE
NOT
THE MOST SOCIOLOGICALLY ACCURATE FUTURE CIVILISATION PROJECTION
The campaign is a great morally grey or black narrative to help frame a reason for the tin cans fighting in the wars in the stars, i think people are reading too much into the physics accuracy as some kind of societal accuracy which it is clearly not. THE MOST SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE SPACE WARFARE SIM EVER MADE Good bye graphene ;-;
THE MOST SOCIOLOGICALLY ACCURATE FUTURE CIVILISATION PROJECTIONPersonally I enjoy realistic stuffs, whether it'll be science or social.
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Post by argonbalt on Mar 7, 2017 4:12:06 GMT
yeah but the societal stuff in COADE is very much not realistic, it honestly all sounds like a black comedy. If you want societal colonial projections read Red/Blue/GReen Mars. Even the Alexander the Great example shows how stupid it is to kill all the males of cities, Alexanders empire fell apart within twenty seconds of him biting it.
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 7, 2017 4:17:32 GMT
yeah but the societal stuff in COADE is very much not realistic, it honestly all sounds like a black comedy. If you want societal colonial projections read Red/Blue/GReen Mars. Even the Alexander the Great example shows how stupid it is to kill all the males of cities, Alexanders empire fell apart within twenty seconds of him biting it. Well, that's right. Let's see if RFP can hold itself together or not.
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 7, 2017 11:27:38 GMT
OK now i accept that asteroid mining can be profitable in long term. However , the uranium problem in saturnian system remain unsolved. Yea you can have some uranium shipped from terra , but it is the backbone of the economy saturnian system , so that mean you still didn't solve the saturnian economic problem because you didn't have something to exchange within the system. Lack of uranium is not a problem. Plenty of sunlight to collect, and a little Uranium will go a long way. Talking about intersystem exchange, a good model would be early America or Australia. At first much has to be shipped from "back home", but with time... Use your imagination. The point is to get started, and get money flowing in. With that money, comes people who want to sell stuff to you, and with that comes more and more complex levels of economics and integration. All the gold ever mined wouldn't fill two olympic sized swimming pools. If you can find an asteroid mining vein with even 1/8 of that, you'd be having so many people trying to find another one, it would be like a second 49er gold rush. The main problem really isn't anything to do with the outer solar system, but the cost of the initial investment to get profits flowing and basic infrastructure set up. At that point, the solar system is your oyster. I thought of your view for hours and i can't totally agree with it after-all. First , people move to america because they want a better life (in term of political and economical) , which the upper class on asteroid can't give them. First , you hint me that a asteroid colony can setup a self sufficient economy by attracting colonist to the asteroid. However , at first , this is a question if any people can accept the fact of living in a dome for the rest of his life. Secondly , on terra you can choose to move to other place with ease if you hate your home or protest or even overthrown the ruling class and upper class there (the upper class on asteroid in this case) if you get enough supply. But on asteroid it is a completely different story as the ruling class get access to the life supply system of the entire colony , and you will be dead of leakage of food and air if you resist. In another word , the upper class have a supreme level of power over ANYONE ELSE on the asteroid , which allow them to despise the people (or worker in this case) as harsh as they want because the living and life of worker are all depending on them. And it is NOT attractive to colonist. Thirdly and MOST IMPORTANTLY , even if you manage to solve all the problem 1&2, there is still one problem : permanent population are a drag of Belt 's economy.With the advance of robot drone and AI , the asteroid mining certainly wouldn't need a large group of human miner. Instead , they would employ small of group of technician with a large auto mining machine or small mining drones or both. If a large population move to the asteroid , you would need to satisfy their basic need like food , water , air an settlement AT LEAST. Also , you mention that the colonist come to sell thing to the rich colonist which come first (or the upper class in my case). But what if the upper class live in the luxury house back on terra? I wouldn't choose to living on asteroid after i became billionaires by selling platinum anyway. With the main source of capital already fly back to terra , there will be no colonist in the belt because there is only 100 or less technician living on a large asteroid (like Eros) simultaneously , so no source of capital and opportunity~ (BTW deltav Your comment is still REALLY useful , because you proved that asteroid mining is a profitable business in long term , and the thread of the post is about economy , not colonization~)
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 7, 2017 12:12:13 GMT
I think the idea behind nuking enemy habs when you take them is because they are full of enemy citizens who won't work for you, enemy systems and sub-systems are loaded with worms and bugs, the enemy may have used bioweapons on the citizens. all in all its safer to drop the nuke then risk stratigic bioweapons
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Post by argonbalt on Mar 7, 2017 14:49:11 GMT
I thought of your view for hours and i can't totally agree with it after-all. First , people move to america because they want a better life (in term of political and economical) , which the upper class on asteroid can't give them. First , you hint me that a asteroid colony can setup a self sufficient economy by attracting colonist to the asteroid. However , at first , this is a question if any people can accept the fact of living in a dome for the rest of his life. As it has been mentioned before, there are other motivations beside pure economical for the migration of population groups, if anything it would be a combination of factors that would motivate a populous to migrate to an outer colony. Imagine if you would in modern times, if the Kurdish population was almost wipe out by ISIS and decided to pool their resources to leave Earth and inhabit an asteroid instead. And while it may start out as a dome perhaps, in time as the population grows more luxurious amenities might be created. As an asteroid is mined out it may be filled in with an internal O'niel cylinder, as this would have the benefit or the rock providing radiation protection as well. Secondly , on terra you can choose to move to other place with ease if you hate your home or protest or even overthrown the ruling class and upper class there (the upper class on asteroid in this case) if you get enough supply. But on asteroid it is a completely different story as the ruling class get access to the life supply system of the entire colony , and you will be dead of leakage of food and air if you resist. In another word , the upper class have a supreme level of power over ANYONE ELSE on the asteroid , which allow them to despise the people (or worker in this case) as harsh as they want because the living and life of worker are all depending on them. And it is NOT attractive to colonist. This is a slightly more valid an interesting point, whoever does establish the colony and decides how to run it will have some great power, but in that sense as well part of the reason human populations on Earth are so abused is because there is a surplus of humans and human supporting resources. Out in the far solar system, human life and technical skills might actually be more valued as a ratio of utility and the cost in moving people out there. Once things become self sufficient, there may be this scenario, but in general one has to ask more so what would be gained. After all if you have a population of trained engineers and technicians they may stage a very nasty rebellion, that or they might outright simply leave. Thirdly and MOST IMPORTANTLY , even if you manage to solve all the problem 1&2, there is still one problem : permanent population are a drag of Belt 's economy.With the advance of robot drone and AI , the asteroid mining certainly wouldn't need a large group of human miner. Instead , they would employ small of group of technician with a large auto mining machine or small mining drones or both. If a large population move to the asteroid , you would need to satisfy their basic need like food , water , air an settlement AT LEAST. Also , you mention that the colonist come to sell thing to the rich colonist which come first (or the upper class in my case). Machinery still breaks down, computers still have glitches. Even if you had a 100% self automated mining colony, AI is notably hard to program for dynamic situations. So even if you were running a pure mining colony with the focus on resource extraction over everything else, those 100 technicians would also likely need a doctor or two, hydroponics farmers, possibly family habs or even prostitutes, entertainment personnel like bars etc. So your total population might grow to 200 in just accounting for the people needed. But what if the upper class live in the luxury house back on terra? I wouldn't choose to living on asteroid after i became billionaires by selling platinum anyway. With the main source of capital already fly back to terra , there will be no colonist in the belt because there is only 100 or less technician living on a large asteroid (like Eros) simultaneously , so no source of capital and opportunity. This is especially wrong i think. The sheer distances involved kind of mandate some level of localised jurisdiction or governance. Remember this is several million kilometres to the belt. Especially if the bosses treat the guys like shit AND they are technical types AND they are isolated and the bosses live on Earth, you might be looking at a scientist rebellion. I fail to see where there is no source of capitol or opportunity, you have rocks lined with massive amounts of ore reserves that could be potentially hollowed out and turned into miniature worlds, plenty of disenfranchised/religious/political groups would probably look at this as a form of opportunity. In COADE however this is all besides the point, the Earth is dead so there is no real leeway for anyone to go back to it.
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 8, 2017 0:03:49 GMT
argonbalt Very good points but it still can't convince me completely (only convinced point 1). I will focus on point 2 and 3. First , on point 2 , you mention that the population on asteroid can left , but what if the launch port is also controlled by the upper class? So actually these workers are not workers , they are SLAVES!! But yea the well-educated population can stage a good rebellion plan , but maybe with a small chance to success. Also , how can you make sure that the rebellion force wouldn't become tyranny later on? Then on point 3 , you mention that the boss have to stay on the asteroid to monitor the entire mining operation, but i don't think so , because there are historical examples that can support my point. In 17 to 19 century , to European colonial empire sent message to its colony by pigeon or boat , which take days if not months to do so , but they still can ship large quantity of resource like mineral and wood back the the homeland. And where is the rulers (or the boss in my case) ? They spend all days in their luxury palaces (or luxury houses in my case) a few thousand of mile away from their colonies! So the boss of asteroid mining company can control their operations with ease , as long as they treat the technicians well.
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Post by deltav on Mar 15, 2017 6:51:55 GMT
argonbalt Very good points but it still can't convince me completely (only convinced point 1). I will focus on point 2 and 3. First , on point 2 , you mention that the population on asteroid can left , but what if the launch port is also controlled by the upper class? So actually these workers are not workers , they are SLAVES!! But yea the well-educated population can stage a good rebellion plan , but maybe with a small chance to success. Also , how can you make sure that the rebellion force wouldn't become tyranny later on? Then on point 3 , you mention that the boss have to stay on the asteroid to monitor the entire mining operation, but i don't think so , because there are historical examples that can support my point. In 17 to 19 century , to European colonial empire sent message to its colony by pigeon or boat , which take days if not months to do so , but they still can ship large quantity of resource like mineral and wood back the the homeland. And where is the rulers (or the boss in my case) ? They spend all days in their luxury palaces (or luxury houses in my case) a few thousand of mile away from their colonies! So the boss of asteroid mining company can control their operations with ease , as long as they treat the technicians well. Thanks for the response I see your point, I just want add to the conversation... About point 2.... Historically people being able to easily pick up and go somewhere else is the exception not the rule.In hunter gatherer days, people had to stay near the migrating herds they hunted, or wild crops they picked at certain times of year. They moved, but in a confined way based on survival needs, not on whims or personal feelings or restlessness. After the agricultural revolution, people had to stay near and protect their land. After the industrial revolution, people had to stay near the factories that they worked at and where they got their goods from. Even today, most people (even in the US) live within 18 miles of the mother and/or where they grew up. www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-family.html?_r=0Most people once they get through with that young adult, just starting off phase of life at say 25 or so, don't like to move more than absolutely necessary. Most will even put up with harsh conditions rather than move away once they have "settled down". So young people maybe just getting out of college, many will jump at the chance to go and set up a new colony, esp if they can live according to some lifestyle or aesthetic that is not accepted where they grew up/ or live now.But once they are there, esp if they met a mate and marry and have been there for a few years, they won't be so quick to leave unless they have to. About point 3.... Humans are not a drag on an economy, people ARE the economy. Without people who have demands, there is no need for any supply. You can't have an economy of robots, because robots don't want or demand. People who move to an asteroid mining colony to set it up, in a computer and robot assisted world, will be technical people, thinkers.They will have valuable skills that will be in demand, and so if they are not needed after the job, they will move on. Also, we are assuming a world with cheap and accessible communication. If word got out that engineers and technicians were being held prisoner once their contract was up, (or if a whole team of highly trained technicians suddenly disappeared after going to work at a new asteroid mining colony), how many more people would sign up for future asteroid colonies? Presumably highly educated and capable people are always in demand and always have options. They will have friends, family or at the very least some upstart politician who wants to get attention and praise by fighting to help these imprisoned miners. Of course there would always be exceptions. But mostly this would be the case. Just my two cents.
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 15, 2017 11:13:20 GMT
argonbalt Very good points but it still can't convince me completely (only convinced point 1). I will focus on point 2 and 3. First , on point 2 , you mention that the population on asteroid can left , but what if the launch port is also controlled by the upper class? So actually these workers are not workers , they are SLAVES!! But yea the well-educated population can stage a good rebellion plan , but maybe with a small chance to success. Also , how can you make sure that the rebellion force wouldn't become tyranny later on? Then on point 3 , you mention that the boss have to stay on the asteroid to monitor the entire mining operation, but i don't think so , because there are historical examples that can support my point. In 17 to 19 century , to European colonial empire sent message to its colony by pigeon or boat , which take days if not months to do so , but they still can ship large quantity of resource like mineral and wood back the the homeland. And where is the rulers (or the boss in my case) ? They spend all days in their luxury palaces (or luxury houses in my case) a few thousand of mile away from their colonies! So the boss of asteroid mining company can control their operations with ease , as long as they treat the technicians well. Thanks for the response I see your point, I just want add to the conversation... About point 2.... Historically people being able to easily pick up and go somewhere else is the exception not the rule.In hunter gatherer days, people had to stay near the migrating herds they hunted, or wild crops they picked at certain times of year. They moved, but in a confined way based on survival needs, not on whims or personal feelings or restlessness. After the agricultural revolution, people had to stay near and protect their land. After the industrial revolution, people had to stay near the factories that they worked at and where they got their goods from. Even today, most people (even in the US) live within 18 miles of the mother and/or where they grew up. www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-family.html?_r=0Most people once they get through with that young adult, just starting off phase of life at say 25 or so, don't like to move more than absolutely necessary. Most will even put up with harsh conditions rather than move away once they have "settled down". So young people maybe just getting out of college, many will jump at the chance to go and set up a new colony, esp if they can live according to some lifestyle or aesthetic that is not accepted where they grew up/ or live now.But once they are there, esp if they met a mate and marry and have been there for a few years, they won't be so quick to leave unless they have to. About point 3.... Humans are not a drag on an economy, people ARE the economy. Without people who have demands, there is no need for any supply. You can't have an economy of robots, because robots don't want or demand. People who move to an asteroid mining colony to set it up, in a computer and robot assisted world, will be technical people, thinkers.They will have valuable skills that will be in demand, and so if they are not needed after the job, they will move on. Also, we are assuming a world with cheap and accessible communication. If word got out that engineers and technicians were being held prisoner once their contract was up, (or if a whole team of highly trained technicians suddenly disappeared after going to work at a new asteroid mining colony), how many more people would sign up for future asteroid colonies? Presumably highly educated and capable people are always in demand and always have options. They will have friends, family or at the very least some upstart politician who wants to get attention and praise by fighting to help these imprisoned miners. Of course there would always be exceptions. But mostly this would be the case. Just my two cents. Good to see you again Delta v~ For point 3 , yea there maybe people that want go to asteroid. But you still can't setup a economy system (because the asteroid mining companies really doesn't need any manpower on asteroid as the crew can repair and control the mining base at the asteroid 's orbit with the aid of robot droneS) , and you can't build a colony without a economy system on the asteroid. No economy , so no need to discuss point 3
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 15, 2017 11:20:29 GMT
BTW i just build a Asteroid Cargo Liner , and in theory it can perform transfer from terra to luna , then landing on luna to mine luna ice and turning it to its propellant , then liftoff to low luna orbit , then transfer to Eros orbit , then do the steps above upside down to low terra orbit and wait for refueling , and carrying 1 kt cargo in the WHOLE trip~ My ship's code: CombustionRocketModule 4.18 km/s LOX LH2 Gimballed Combustion Rocket
UsesCustomName false
Reaction LOX LH2
StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1
ThermalRocket
ChamberComposition Maraging Steel
ThroatRadius_m 0.75
ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0005
ChamberContractionRatio 6
NozzleExpansionRatio 100
NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 12
RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.017
Injector
Composition Maraging Steel
PumpRadius_m 2
RotationalSpeed_RPM 1
Gimbal
InnerRadius_m 2.834
ArmorComposition Maraging Steel
ArmorThickness_m 0.0001
MomentumWheels
Composition Maraging Steel
RotationalSpeed_RPM 2715
GimbalAngle_degrees 3
PropellantTankModule 3.97 kt Oxygen Tank
UsesCustomName false
Propellant Oxygen
StructureComposition Martensitic Stainless Steel
ReactionMass_kg 3.97e+006
HeightToRadiusRatio 2.5
AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule 500 t Hydrogen Tank
UsesCustomName false
Propellant Hydrogen
StructureComposition Maraging Steel
ReactionMass_kg 5e+005
HeightToRadiusRatio 5
AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CrewModule 32 Crew Module 2
UsesCustomName false
CrewCapacity 32
Decks 11
StructureMaterial Maraging Steel
ShellThickness_m 0.01
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor
UsesCustomName false
ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.1 0.1
NuclearReactor
Coolant Ethane
Moderator Graphite
ModeratorMass_kg 0
Fuel U-233 Dioxide
FuelMass_kg 1.3
FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97
ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride
ControlRodMass_kg 2
NeutronReflector Diamond
ReflectorThickness_m 0.366
AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.2e+017
InnerTurbopump
Composition Amorphous Carbon
PumpRadius_m 0.058
RotationalSpeed_RPM 350
ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.12 0.12
Thermocouple
PTypeComposition Osmium
NTypeComposition Tungsten
Length_m 0.001
ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 1700
OuterCoolant Sodium
OuterTurbopump
Composition Polyethylene
PumpRadius_m 0.012
RotationalSpeed_RPM 3.11
RadiatorModule 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator
UsesCustomName false
Composition Boron
PanelWidth_m 0.25
Height_m 0.2
Thickness_m 0.001
ArmorThickness_m 0.001
Panels 1
FrontTaper_radians 0
BackTaper_radians 0
SurfaceFinish null
RadiatorModule 3x3 Maraging Steel Radiator
UsesCustomName false
Composition Maraging Steel
PanelWidth_m 3
Height_m 3
Thickness_m 0.001
ArmorThickness_m 0.001
Panels 1
FrontTaper_radians 0
BackTaper_radians 0
SurfaceFinish null
CargoModule 1.000 kt Cargo Bay 2
Mass_kg 1e+006
AspectRatio 1
RadiatorModule 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator
UsesCustomName false
Composition Boron
PanelWidth_m 0.25
Height_m 0.2
Thickness_m 0.001
ArmorThickness_m 0.001
Panels 1
FrontTaper_radians 0
BackTaper_radians 0
SurfaceFinish null
RadiatorModule 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator
UsesCustomName false
Composition Boron
PanelWidth_m 0.25
Height_m 0.2
Thickness_m 0.001
ArmorThickness_m 0.001
Panels 1
FrontTaper_radians 0
BackTaper_radians 0
SurfaceFinish null
CraftBlueprint Asteroid Cargo Liner
Modules
4.18 km/s LOX LH2 Gimballed Combustion Rocket 9 0 null 0
3.97 kt Oxygen Tank 1 33.78 null 0
500 t Hydrogen Tank 1 17.803 null 0
32 Crew Module 2 1 75.958 null 0
103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 0 null 0
0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator 4 34.53 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0
3x3 Maraging Steel Radiator 2 147.44 32 Crew Module 2 0
1.000 kt Cargo Bay 2 1 54.869 null 0
0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator 4 34.133 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0
0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator 4 33.844 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0
Armor
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 15, 2017 11:44:58 GMT
BTW i just build a Asteroid Cargo Liner , and in theory it can perform transfer from terra to luna , then landing on luna to mine luna ice and turning it to its propellant , then liftoff to low luna orbit , then transfer to Eros orbit , then do the steps above upside down to low terra orbit and wait for refueling , and carrying 1 kt cargo in the WHOLE trip~ My ship's code: CombustionRocketModule 4.18 km/s LOX LH2 Gimballed Combustion Rocket UsesCustomName false Reaction LOX LH2 StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Maraging Steel ThroatRadius_m 0.75 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0005 ChamberContractionRatio 6 NozzleExpansionRatio 100 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 12 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.017 Injector Composition Maraging Steel PumpRadius_m 2 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 2.834 ArmorComposition Maraging Steel ArmorThickness_m 0.0001 MomentumWheels Composition Maraging Steel RotationalSpeed_RPM 2715 GimbalAngle_degrees 3 PropellantTankModule 3.98 kt Oxygen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Oxygen StructureComposition Martensitic Stainless Steel ReactionMass_kg 3.98e+006 HeightToRadiusRatio 2.5 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 PropellantTankModule 500 t Hydrogen Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Hydrogen StructureComposition Maraging Steel ReactionMass_kg 5e+005 HeightToRadiusRatio 5 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0 CrewModule 32 Crew Module 2 UsesCustomName false CrewCapacity 32 Decks 11 StructureMaterial Maraging Steel ShellThickness_m 0.01 ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor UsesCustomName false ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.1 0.1 NuclearReactor Coolant Ethane Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 1.3 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 2 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0.366 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.2e+017 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.058 RotationalSpeed_RPM 350 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.12 0.12 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 1700 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Polyethylene PumpRadius_m 0.012 RotationalSpeed_RPM 3.11 RadiatorModule 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron PanelWidth_m 0.25 Height_m 0.2 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish null RadiatorModule 3x3 Maraging Steel Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Maraging Steel PanelWidth_m 3 Height_m 3 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish null CargoModule 1.000 kt Cargo Bay 2 Mass_kg 1e+006 AspectRatio 1 RadiatorModule 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron PanelWidth_m 0.25 Height_m 0.2 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish null RadiatorModule 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron PanelWidth_m 0.25 Height_m 0.2 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 1 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish null CraftBlueprint Asteroid Cargo Liner Modules 4.18 km/s LOX LH2 Gimballed Combustion Rocket 9 0 null 0 3.92 kt Oxygen Tank 1 33.78 null 0 500 t Hydrogen Tank 1 17.803 null 0 32 Crew Module 2 1 75.958 null 0 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 0 null 0 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator 4 34.53 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 3x3 Maraging Steel Radiator 2 147.56 32 Crew Module 2 0 1.000 kt Cargo Bay 2 1 54.869 null 0 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator 4 34.133 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0.3x0.2 Boron Radiator 4 33.844 103 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 Armor
Why are the engines so large?
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 15, 2017 11:48:24 GMT
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Post by bigbombr on Mar 15, 2017 12:00:00 GMT
You could try to reduce the throat radius to reduce the nozzle size (and weight).
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Post by samchiu2000 on Mar 15, 2017 12:06:05 GMT
You could try to reduce the throat radius to reduce the nozzle size (and weight). Can you show me how?~
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