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Post by Argopeilacos on Jun 30, 2017 18:02:52 GMT
Will there be a loser bracket too? It was supposed to be a double elimination tournament IIRC.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Jun 30, 2017 18:09:37 GMT
Will there be a loser bracket too? It was supposed to be a double elimination tournament IIRC. I'm going to try. |
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Post by Argopeilacos on Jun 30, 2017 18:28:23 GMT
Will there be a loser bracket too? It was supposed to be a double elimination tournament IIRC. I'm going to try. That's appreciated, even though I don't intend to be on the loser side  . |
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Post by apophys on Jun 30, 2017 19:06:01 GMT
AdmiralObvious The video for round 1 match 4 has disappeared from the 3rd post. (still on youtube though)
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Post by Argopeilacos on Jun 30, 2017 19:26:41 GMT
Note, the combat for nekomata and Argopeilacos took literally 2 hours, I started recording at 8: 30, and it's now almost 11:10. As a result, YouTube refused to process the video, due to length. Technically, it's a draw in every fight, but Argopeilacos always scored the kill first, so I attribute the win to them. Pretty much the whole video would've been watching the missile fleet chasing unresponsive laser drones, till they burn all their fuel and disable themselves, then having the laser drones burn off all the weapons of the Wildcat, then watching a fleet of 20 missed missiles, gut the laserstar roughly 6 in game hours later. And I designed my entry specifically to avoid draws (as opposed to the original defenceless MPDT carrier)… As I understand, the laserstar was unable to destroy the missiles before interception? That's… unexpected. |
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Post by treptoplax on Jun 30, 2017 19:48:47 GMT
Note, the combat for nekomata and Argopeilacos took literally 2 hours, I started recording at 8: 30, and it's now almost 11:10. As a result, YouTube refused to process the video, due to length. Technically, it's a draw in every fight, but Argopeilacos always scored the kill first, so I attribute the win to them. Pretty much the whole video would've been watching the missile fleet chasing unresponsive laser drones, till they burn all their fuel and disable themselves, then having the laser drones burn off all the weapons of the Wildcat, then watching a fleet of 20 missed missiles, gut the laserstar roughly 6 in game hours later. And I designed my entry specifically to avoid draws (as opposed to the original defenceless MPDT carrier)… As I understand, the laserstar was unable to destroy the missiles before interception? That's… unexpected. I'm really hoping people will post 1.1.2-updated versions of their designs when we're done (I've got one ready). A full round-robin tournament is too much to ask, but I certainly would try my own design against everything. |
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Post by Argopeilacos on Jun 30, 2017 19:56:06 GMT
I'm really hoping people will post 1.1.2-updated versions of their designs when we're done (I've got one ready). A full round-robin tournament is too much to ask, but I certainly would try my own design against everything. I have updated mine but it seems the way drone launchers & storage volume is computed has changed, and my carrier is way too big now (altough that might be the increase in reactor size). I'll upload it anyway once I am satisfied with it, it won't satisfy the rules anymore though. |
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Jun 30, 2017 21:25:24 GMT
Note, the combat for nekomata and Argopeilacos took literally 2 hours, I started recording at 8: 30, and it's now almost 11:10. As a result, YouTube refused to process the video, due to length. Technically, it's a draw in every fight, but Argopeilacos always scored the kill first, so I attribute the win to them. Pretty much the whole video would've been watching the missile fleet chasing unresponsive laser drones, till they burn all their fuel and disable themselves, then having the laser drones burn off all the weapons of the Wildcat, then watching a fleet of 20 missed missiles, gut the laserstar roughly 6 in game hours later. And I designed my entry specifically to avoid draws (as opposed to the original defenceless MPDT carrier)… As I understand, the laserstar was unable to destroy the missiles before interception? That's… unexpected. The ship itself was dealing with missiles coming in at roughly 7 km/s. If the drones actually responded, instead of just set on no order, I assume it'd be different, since they usually intercepted the missiles first.. |
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Post by Argopeilacos on Jun 30, 2017 21:30:11 GMT
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Post by batflag on Jul 1, 2017 12:54:08 GMT
I'm most intimidated by Dhan 's One Trick Pony. If our designs face off, it looks like a mutual kill would be the most likely outcome. Kinetics seem to be your designs main vulnerability. I'd wager your MPDTs won't be able to dodge hypervelocity slugs even at the range involved in the current build. I think my own design doesn't stand a chance against the quantity of lasers you field, except if my "laser bait" missiles can resist your firepower long enough... I chewed over the issue of how to provide advantage to kinetics against laser-based designs, and small, rubber-armored decoy laser drones seem like they might help. The design I posted on the previous tournament thread was still a little half-baked and I doubt would have been a serious challenge, but it illustrates the concept. Of course, this is exploiting the fact that AI targets active lasers first. You could argue that this doesn't reflect human targeting. Or it might work against a human gunner once, but not twice. |
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Post by Argopeilacos on Jul 1, 2017 13:48:43 GMT
No need to use laser drones. Missiles are prioritised by the AI, even with active lasers on the launching ship. That is cheesing the AI though.
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Post by apophys on Jul 1, 2017 16:09:21 GMT
Both of those ideas should be circumvented by only allowing targeting of ships, not shots (on some of the laserstar lasers).
Even so, you're going to have a hard time if your drones/missiles are not pre-deployed (and AI never does that). The ship can get fried before it launches sufficient drones as decoys.
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Post by treptoplax on Jul 1, 2017 16:58:04 GMT
How quick you end it is important, too; I wonder if some of the dead missiles would have hit in that second match. (This is complicated by the fact that the AI dumbly stops dodging once all enemies are destroyed...).
I feel like a fast, small drone that opened fire at 300-400Km might be viable. Not sure how you can do that with current AI/range settings short of manual control. Maybe now with blast launchers?
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Post by argonbalt on Jul 1, 2017 18:13:52 GMT
Hey Admiral Obvious would you be opposed to me writing a custom AI dogma and using it instead of the pre-sets? Im finding allot of weird or stupid situations with the pre-sets that are kind of infuriating in regards to my ships design. Stuff like:
-Ship does not dodge even when given 60+ seconds to move out of the way of kinetics that are in inching forward
-Bad priority of parts, targeting drones engines or radiators over their guns
-only some weapons using ignore range, some AI types only use for laser or for railgun or half the railguns or vice versa
I feel like i could mitigate allot of this with a simple custom doctrine, i think it is fair seeing as nothing on the ship is malfunctioning or broken just the brain dead AI selection only has the required attributes in like three separate settings, id like to amalgamate them into one.
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Post by Argopeilacos on Jul 1, 2017 18:43:37 GMT
Both of those ideas should be circumvented by only allowing targeting of ships, not shots (on some of the laserstar lasers). Indeed, but not very practical with the current implementation: you need separate "taret shots" and "don't target shots" laser modules. You couldn't do it with the layout of your entry, though you could have it per ship. Even so, you're going to have a hard time if your drones/missiles are not pre-deployed (and AI never does that). The ship can get fried before it launches sufficient drones as decoys. I made a suggestion for this pre-deployment issue. argonbalt working around the AI stupidity was half of the challenge. I had to compromise on targetting priorities too (hot radiators before guns). |
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