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Post by magusunion on Nov 19, 2016 6:22:01 GMT
Try using 'Tantalum Hafnium Carbide' in your next test. I don't know how to make super lasers like you do, but I'd almost bet that this material could handle them...
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Post by redparadize on Nov 19, 2016 11:30:21 GMT
Advanced Battle Tutorial:
Here is a "quick" tutorial on how to defeat long range laser using multipurpose "sub capital ship" drone and tactics previously described. But this time with more details and some picture. For this battle*, I used 5 Valkyrie III displayed on the previous page. Each Valkyrie III carry: 20 Dwarf 2.66kt(nuclear missile) 40 lancer (decoy/KKV) 50mm gun that shoot 10g round at 2.7km/s. (with intercept speed its 5.3km/s) It also carry flare missile but I didn't use them in this battle. The foe have 9 mostly stock ships, for demonstration sake, relatively easy stuff: 3 laser frigates 3 sentinels 3 patrol ships and 3 modified Solar lance, (better armor and lasers are tad stronger.) 1-Intercept Striking with multiple drone work better when the approach is as centered as possible because you want to surround your enemy in battle. If you plan on doing similar tactic with a single drone then you should be slightly off center, it will save you some fuel later on. AI does not dodge much, that part will be more difficult against player. Here I spent 2.6km/s Dv on intercept, I could have gone for a higher speed but screen grab would have been even more difficult. With design like mine you want to keep at least 1/3 of your Dv for battle maneuver, more if your drone have a higher mass ratio. 2-Deployment As I said, I want to surround the enemy, so the first thing to do is to set formation on scatter. Its almost always a good thing to do. I also drop 5 decoy missile to cover me while I am doing this. Be ready to shut down main engines not too long after battle start. All my sub capital ship have nuclear RCS mounted on the rear. This allow rotation control without accelerating and burning fuel too much. Having them mounted only on the rear also mean that keeping ship oriented will make vessel drift, that's a good thing as it will make them harder to hit. 3-Start Let the formation scatter a bit, but not too much. If you scatter your vessel to far their missile may miss. Cut main engines and set formation to Broadside (in my case that's forward but whatever). If you look at the picture you will notice that enemy are already firing at decoy. Do not let the enemy firing at your ship when sideways, it have expose your engines, so you need these 5 flare right at start. 4-Missile wave Wait a bit before launching missile, your drone will have more time to spread. Its a good thing because they will close on the enemy from a wider angle, turrets will have to turn further when switching target and your missiles are more likely to target different ships. Send small wave of 5 nuclear missiles mixed with 5 decoy missiles per drone. You can send more decoy on the first wave. Stronger enemy laser are, closer wave should be. The main advantage in doing this is that your missile have less chance to go for a already dead target. This is also the only way to defeat flare missile at this point. Does not currently matter as AI does not know how to use them! Note that all engines are off, orientation keeping is optional during that phase. 5-Firing gun Once all nuclear missile depleted, you should still have few decoy, keep them for later. Turn RCS truster on, make sure you have maneuver set to broadside, and press ignore range to fire. Note that I am still 500 km away. Accuracy is better at high speed, what mater is not distance but travel time. My gun are accurate enough to hit a static target 1 min away, but not necessarily if moving. So what you want to do is to jump to enemy vision and look at wish ship is not moving. Start switching target, starting by the static one and moving one as you get closer. 2 second per target is enough with my gun, but it is preferable to shoot longer than that because you do not want to have two volley flying at the same target. The first volley could trow the target off course and make the second one miss. Note that drones regained most of their Dv, its because playload is gone. This will be helpful for the next phase. 6-Flyby and Second pass Given you scattered at start, the flyby should be some-wait far, that plus the drifting caused by rear RCS and gun firing should keep your drone relatively safe. On my part, on two rematch I did't lost any. So, as soon as you fly by what to do is to set formation to pursuit, this will turn the drones and they will start decelerating and accelerating toward the target for a second pass. If enemy still have functional laser, the decoy missile that you still have should be used. The second pass is usually much slower so fire once you are close enough. Again, switch between target, static first. Rinse and repeat. *These picture are in fact from two battle, screen grab while fighting is difficult.
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Post by ash19256 on Nov 19, 2016 21:11:49 GMT
Here is the missile I mentioned earlier. I'll need to retract my statement about it's effectiveness against 1GW lasers; I ran a quick test before posting and it seems that the 1GW is able to burn through around the spacer and pop the tank even with a graphite thermal plate being added. It is still effective against 6x150MW lasers though. The missile itself costs 16 kc, but I've managed to get it to engage across the 1Mm range in about 120 seconds. The design is scalable without affecting the hull or armor profile; between 1 and 4 3kt nukes can be mounted along with a standard osmium NEFP slug. Whether the slug is effective or not I can't confirm for certain. I know there is another thread dedicated to solving the NEFP problem. What do know is that these missiles tend to engage the enemy front-on when they flyby, so and I have seen occasional NEFP-looking holes in a few gunships. *Edit* To clarify, the thermal plate I mentioned is not included in the picture. The Rear Warhead Cap is a thin osmium plate designed to help protect the warhead and control unit within a miniature "citadel" style armor, styled after real life ICBM reentry vehicles. If it can survive reentry it can survive a laser right? Could we get stats for the unique modules in use with this missile? I kind of want to try it for myself.
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Post by nerd1000 on Nov 20, 2016 10:29:48 GMT
Try using 'Tantalum Hafnium Carbide' in your next test. I don't know how to make super lasers like you do, but I'd almost bet that this material could handle them... It only works on low power lasers. The reason for this is that the Tantalum Hafnium Carbide has very low specific heat, so when the laser hits it the material will heat up very quickly. The high melting point allows it to dissipate heat by radiating it away, but any powerful laser can put so much power on such a small spot that the Tantalum Hafnium Carbide can never radiate away enough heat to remain solid.
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Post by magusunion on Nov 20, 2016 23:17:06 GMT
Try using 'Tantalum Hafnium Carbide' in your next test. I don't know how to make super lasers like you do, but I'd almost bet that this material could handle them... It only works on low power lasers. The reason for this is that the Tantalum Hafnium Carbide has very low specific heat, so when the laser hits it the material will heat up very quickly. The high melting point allows it to dissipate heat by radiating it away, but any powerful laser can put so much power on such a small spot that the Tantalum Hafnium Carbide can never radiate away enough heat to remain solid. Well piss. So much for that theory. I guess it would need a high conductivity layer to dissipate the heat as it's getting shot. Maybe a Hafnium-Copper-Hafnium sequence would work? I'll look at the materials real quick to see which would be better in that function...
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Post by Durandal on Nov 21, 2016 18:38:09 GMT
I haven't had a chance to mess with it myself, but has anyone had any success in reflective Silver/Aluminum coatings yet? And was there ever a consensus made about the paper thing Amorphous Carbon/S-gel/Amorphous Carbon scheme?
On my capships I use a general layout of: Diamond/Graphite Aerogel/Boron which so far has done pretty well at preventing general laser damage, with turrets coated in either Diamond or strait Graphite.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 21, 2016 19:00:48 GMT
There is no consensus yet, and I am now doubting the 5 layer of spaced Amorphous Carbon I posted on page one. about reflective armor. Keep in mind that reflection is not equal for all wavelength...
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Post by n2maniac on Nov 22, 2016 3:08:31 GMT
I have had success with these against a few configurations of high power (GW range) violet lasers. Can fit a few thousand in a craft without hardly any mass penalty (but a small cost penalty). Might be able to do better with more aramid. I usually accelerate ~1.5km/s towards the laser fleet, launch 100 of these, accelerate them another 1.5km/s, scatter the group initially in battle, then give them a default homing. If anyone wants to experiment with them I would be curious to see if they observe substantially different results.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 22, 2016 3:24:55 GMT
@n2maniacth
Seem to work!
-It work better with the pointy nose. It would in reality too. Pointy mean more surface per KJ
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Post by someusername6 on Nov 22, 2016 3:28:22 GMT
Hm. How dependent are those designs on the laser frequency? Should we be trying to make high-powered lasers from every gain medium?
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Post by n2maniac on Nov 22, 2016 3:40:03 GMT
Hm. How dependent are those designs on the laser frequency? Should we be trying to make high-powered lasers from every gain medium? Great question, I have no idea. Here is the laser I would test them against:
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Post by redparadize on Nov 22, 2016 4:06:24 GMT
Hm. How dependent are those designs on the laser frequency? Should we be trying to make high-powered lasers from every gain medium? It work against your laser, I do not know for the other. Do you have others colors in the 10gw?
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Post by someusername6 on Nov 22, 2016 4:31:21 GMT
It work against your laser, I do not know for the other. Do you have others colors in the 10gw? I haven't played with those much, but changing the Purple into Green or UV was easy. You can also remove the frequency doubler for more frequencies, but the intensity will drop some / I haven't tried other frequencies much yet. LaserModule 10.0 GW Nd:YAG Green Laser Hot UsesCustomName true ArcLamp GasComposition Krypton EnvelopeComposition Titanium Dioxide PowerSupplied_W 1e+010 Radius_m 0.01 CavityWallComposition Molybdenum CavityCoolantComposition Hydrogen CavitySemimajorAxis_m 0.7 CavitySemiminorAxis_m 0.685 GainMedium Nd:YAG OpticalNodes 10000000 LasingRodRadius_m 0.016 Mirror Composition Molybdenum OutputCoupler Composition Titanium Dioxide CoolantTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.9 RotationalSpeed_RPM 430 CoolantInletTemperature_K 1740 FrequencyDoubler NonlinearOptic Composition Potassium Titanyl Phosphate OpticLength_m 0.1 OpticRadius_m 0.08 ApertureRadius_m 4.94 FocusingMirror Composition Aluminum Turret InnerRadius_m 10.5 ArmorComposition Diamond ArmorThickness_m 0.008 MomentumWheels Composition Calcium RotationalSpeed_RPM 390 EngagementRange_km 1000 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
LaserModule 10.0 GW Titanium:Sapphire Violet Laser Hot UsesCustomName true ArcLamp GasComposition Xenon EnvelopeComposition Titanium Dioxide PowerSupplied_W 1e+010 Radius_m 0.01 CavityWallComposition Molybdenum CavityCoolantComposition Hydrogen CavitySemimajorAxis_m 0.7 CavitySemiminorAxis_m 0.685 GainMedium Titanium:Sapphire OpticalNodes 10000000 LasingRodRadius_m 0.016 Mirror Composition Molybdenum OutputCoupler Composition Titanium Dioxide CoolantTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.9 RotationalSpeed_RPM 430 CoolantInletTemperature_K 1740 FrequencyDoubler NonlinearOptic Composition Potassium Titanyl Phosphate OpticLength_m 0.1 OpticRadius_m 0.08 ApertureRadius_m 4.94 FocusingMirror Composition Aluminum Turret InnerRadius_m 10.5 ArmorComposition Diamond ArmorThickness_m 0.008 MomentumWheels Composition Calcium RotationalSpeed_RPM 140 EngagementRange_km 1000 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
LaserModule 10.0 GW Ruby Near Ultraviolet Laser Hot UsesCustomName true ArcLamp GasComposition Xenon EnvelopeComposition Titanium Dioxide PowerSupplied_W 1e+010 Radius_m 0.01 CavityWallComposition Molybdenum CavityCoolantComposition Hydrogen CavitySemimajorAxis_m 0.7 CavitySemiminorAxis_m 0.685 GainMedium Ruby OpticalNodes 10000000 LasingRodRadius_m 0.016 Mirror Composition Molybdenum OutputCoupler Composition Fused Quartz CoolantTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 1.1 RotationalSpeed_RPM 380 CoolantInletTemperature_K 1700 FrequencyDoubler NonlinearOptic Composition Potassium Titanyl Phosphate OpticLength_m 0.1 OpticRadius_m 0.08 ApertureRadius_m 4.94 FocusingMirror Composition Aluminum Turret InnerRadius_m 10.5 ArmorComposition Diamond ArmorThickness_m 0.004 MomentumWheels Composition Calcium RotationalSpeed_RPM 390 EngagementRange_km 1000 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
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Post by tukuro on Nov 22, 2016 12:12:17 GMT
Your efficiency is sub-optimal. You want the lasing rod and the arc lamp to be as close as possible.
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Post by apophys on Nov 22, 2016 22:07:07 GMT
Also, a purple laser should have aluminum for the focusing mirror, not silver.
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