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Post by spudscud on Oct 30, 2016 0:57:58 GMT
Are AMMs efficient enough to be viable? I have a ship that launches eight of these every second (they have a mass of less than 25kg too) when enemy missiles are 75km out, and they work quite well (intercept at ~55km), but is there a better counter-missile strategy? I haven't messed around with lasers or coilguns very much so I'm a bit grey on this matter. Unfortunately these AMMs aren't very good at all against capital ships with decent acceleration or flares either.
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Post by jonen on Oct 30, 2016 2:21:33 GMT
You talking with, or without exploiting the missile AI?
Because with exploiting the AI, yes - it takes only one missile to take out an enemy missile fleet.
Without exploit can be harder to test - ideally, you'd launch your countermissiles to intercept the enemy missiles out of combat, and they'd pair of so you'd try to get one countermissile per target), but since this will always work against AI, and AI won't use that kind of tactic against you, it's hard to test if there's a setup that can penetrate an extended anti-missile screen without expending to much deltaV to reacquire the real target.
With current missile behavior, the ultimate defense is to use laser to force an engagement to start 250 km out, and well time dodging to force the missiles to burn through all their deltaV - barring designs specifically designed to burn all the way in for 250+ km, this ensures near complete immunity to missiles for as long as the lasing platform has deltaV to spare (which is, admittedly, the weakpoint of the scheme).
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Post by spudscud on Oct 30, 2016 3:35:55 GMT
Launching nukes to take out an enemy missile salvo is a bit too easy so I let the missiles intercept my fleet, at which point I just sit tight and pump out tiny PD counter-missiles which intercept and collide with the hostile missiles. This approach seems a bit less game-y than screwing around with 9999999 GW lasers, but if there is a better way that would be good.
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Post by bigbombr on Oct 30, 2016 6:34:50 GMT
Launching nukes to take out an enemy missile salvo is a bit too easy so I let the missiles intercept my fleet, at which point I just sit tight and pump out tiny PD counter-missiles which intercept and collide with the hostile missiles. This approach seems a bit less game-y than screwing around with 9999999 GW lasers, but if there is a better way that would be good. The most you can pump in a laser is 1GW. |
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Post by dragonkid11 on Oct 30, 2016 6:51:16 GMT
Launching nukes to take out an enemy missile salvo is a bit too easy so I let the missiles intercept my fleet, at which point I just sit tight and pump out tiny PD counter-missiles which intercept and collide with the hostile missiles. This approach seems a bit less game-y than screwing around with 9999999 GW lasers, but if there is a better way that would be good. The most you can pump in a laser is 1GW. Ahhhh but nobody say you can't make a ship with 9999999 1GW laser!  Besides crashing the game from sheer number. |
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Post by bigbombr on Oct 30, 2016 6:54:14 GMT
The most you can pump in a laser is 1GW. Ahhhh but nobody say you can't make a ship with 9999999 1GW laser! Besides crashing the game from sheer number. An equivalent number of missiles would be more likely to crash the game. Lasers are probably the least laggy weapon in the game actually. |
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Post by spudscud on Oct 30, 2016 7:35:29 GMT
The most you can pump in a laser is 1GW. Yeah, I was exaggerating a bit, but I suppose you already know that. Besides, more lag always equals more awesome A swarm of a couple hundred of these AMMs is awesome, but the viability still concerns me. |
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Post by kommisar on Nov 1, 2016 21:37:23 GMT
I've been experimenting with AMMs myself of late. Especially after I developed anti-ship missiles with decent enough armor to get through normal to decent laser defenses. Or, simply to be able to counter large missile salvos.
I'm still hunting the right design. I am also trying to avoid the use of the "gamey" tactics. Best performer so far has been a very small (89cm x 34cm dia) fragmentary missile. You could probably still make an good argument that flares are more effective. The big draw backs are 1) LAG. Launch to many to swamp an attacking salvo and this escalate quickly on the old CPU. 2) All the AMMs will go after one enemy missile until it is destroyed. If I am launching them in the tactical screen, then this leads to a congo line of AMMs which are just not as effective as a simple area dispersal pattern would be.
Looking at using nukes. I just haven't found the right missile or nuke warhead yet.
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Post by redmars on Nov 1, 2016 22:32:38 GMT
My feeling is that small numbers of large warheads are better for this job than large numbers of small ones. I have a 3KT general-purpose 'SRM' with about 3 km/s Δv that does a number on drones, missiles, etc. when fired in salvos of 2-5 with a few seconds' gap between each salvo. I'd really love a non-nuclear warhead for the same job (maybe a gun-launched one?), but I've had very limited success killing small targets with frag or kinetic missiles thus far.
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Post by bluuetechnic on Nov 2, 2016 1:19:04 GMT
I'm not really looking at anti-missile MISSILES atm, but I have been trying to find a way to make anti-missile gun launched warheads. I know that it isn't entirely possible, but I still want to see some BSG style flak barriers. (Admittedly I never really watched much of that show, but of the few parts I did see, the part where they engaged at a (relatively) close range and put up the flak cloud to stop anything from getting through was cool as shit)
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Post by madscientist on Nov 2, 2016 6:27:13 GMT
...I know that it isn't entirely possible, but I still want to see some BSG style flak barriers... Actually, ships can put up some surprisingly effective defensive flak barrages:  The key is to add flares to flak shells, as when the flare burns out, the flak will detonate. Always add more than one flare, as there is something a bit bugged with them. Sometimes flares will burn out as soon as they are launched, immediately triggering the payload and blowing up your ship. Multiple flares stops this happening. With careful timing of the flare lifetime, a DFB can be pretty cool:  The flares guarantee that every shell will explode at a fixed distance, creating an effective barrier. The advantage of a DFB in is that no matter how many missiles the enemy has launched, they ALL have to fly through the barrier. More missiles only slightly increases the chance to hit, unlike lasers which can always be overwhelmed if enough ordinance is thrown at them. Here is it in action (along with the rest of the CIWS railguns and cannons):  The result, of 50 inbound missiles: 4 taken down by ABM defences (deliberately turned off after a couple of launches to demonstrate the DFB) 45 taken down by DFB+CIWS 1 missed the ship (and was shot down on the other side).  All in all, I'd say that's a pretty convincing test for a DFB. Currently, they are only really useful for defending the targeted ship (as opposed to defending an escorted fleet). There is also the chance that an allied vessel may stray into the DFB, resulting in egregious friendly fire. However, if we happened to get more intelligent fire control and better proximity-fuse settings in a future update, I think this kind of system could actually be monstrously effective at downing incoming missiles. |
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Post by concretedonkey on Nov 2, 2016 6:40:43 GMT
Hah , I knew there was a practical use of the delayed fuse-flare  . |
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 10:19:44 GMT
That defensive flak is excellent, and it would pair up very well with gigawatt-array laser fleets.
If every ship in the fleet has it, on a 90 degree gimbal, then friendly fire should be avoided by shooting everything down before the angle becomes an issue.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 2, 2016 13:29:00 GMT
As it is, Flare missile is the ultimate defense against regular missile. If your ship have a low heat signature you can make them very affordable and light, my smallest variant only weight 45kg. When manually controlled, I can make explode massive wave of missile at a distance of 25km with a single flare. At that range, even multi-MT nuke barely heat your armor. I posted my design in the 100mc challenge tread if you are interested.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 2, 2016 14:05:31 GMT
Holy shit, you made timed flak cannon!?
People playing this game is getting smarter and smarter everyday.
EDIT:
Oh and my the way, could you show us your flak cannon design?
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