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Post by redparadize on Nov 14, 2016 0:38:37 GMT
Humm, that layered armor setup does not scale down to well to missile size. Whats good at that scale?
Ok... I just tried 5 layer of 500um Amorphous carbon. seem to work realy well until close range. The multiple layer seem to help allot for small missile. Maybe there something into this.
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 14, 2016 22:48:40 GMT
I'm curious, how much space in-between layers? TBH kg for kg, I haven't found anything better than Sil-Gel (you just need a thicker layer now than you used to).
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Post by redparadize on Nov 15, 2016 3:17:07 GMT
Ok, first thing first, I tried amimai armor layout agaist laser and it didn't work for my realy small missile, even with the spaced thing... So I started to tweak things and result just seemed wrong and random at first. I started to think amimai armor layout might work, but not for the reason mentioned. No offence here, my conclusion seem to point in that direction. Here is what I found and what I would like to be confirmed by others, I might got the wrong conclusion too: 1: 5 layer are better than a single large one, regardless of the composition. Specially for Amorphous Carbon. 2: Shape seem matter. Larger amount of "hit square" better it is. Specially for Amorphous Carbon. 3: Short and large seem to work better slim and long missile. My theory goes as follow: A "hit square" is hit by laser, it heat up and transfer heat to adjacent and inner "hit square". If a "hit square" heat up to quicker than it can transfer heat, it melt. Amorphous Carbon is really good at transferring heat, but if there is not much "hit square" to dump heat on then all square will heat and melt at the same time. When that happen fuel tank under it will empty up without any noticeable damage, disabling the missile. I seem to be why amimai armor layout didn't work for my small missile. I tweaked the following missile allot. It is the one that gave me the best result. Note the two spacer on top, they are really important. The idea is to force the creation of two aditional ring of "hit square" on the top, the missile was not nearly as good without it, wish seem to confirm my second conclusion. Armor layout is composed of layered 500um of Aramid fiber and Amorphous Carbon, its not too heavy nor too expensive. It also work with 5 layer of Amorphous Carbon but to a lesser extent. I am unsure if its because of layer to layer insulation or because the combo work as a heat sink. If the later is the case, then I would really like to have Ice armor!
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Post by redparadize on Nov 15, 2016 3:35:31 GMT
I forgot to mention, it was tested against 4 solar lance modified to fire at 1000km. A platform would intercept at 40ms and then launch 100 of them from 1000km at a rate of 4 per sec. This is the design that got the closest. Just few kilometer away. With a intercept of 4 km/s most of them made it trough.
I plan on designing a missile launcher drone armored enough to cover most of the 1000km before launching missile. That way I will probably be eable to reduce the cost of individual missile by allot.
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Post by concretedonkey on Nov 15, 2016 5:01:31 GMT
... 2: Shape seem matter. Larger amount of "hit square" better it is. Specially for Amorphous Carbon. 3: Short and large seem to work better slim and long missile. ... Well that's strange, its exactly the opposite of what I'm getting. Bigger fatter missiles with my armor setup tended to need more armor to get the same survivability. I'll try your setup later today and see what happens, maybe its just the different materials behaving completely differently. Or its the laser itself.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 15, 2016 5:17:51 GMT
The short and fat set up certainly works better for my drones.
I think it's due to my multi-fuel tanks structure.
Where in a long and slim drone, once the laser pierce in, it might ruptures all fuel tanks.
But in a shrot and fat, the laser need to cut through the entire front just to get all the fuel tanks.
It might caused the drones to get shot more easily, but since when is kinetic and missile the main danger to a drones?
Though the only issue I have with this is that my missile now looks like giant ice-cream cone.
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Post by concretedonkey on Nov 15, 2016 5:27:57 GMT
The short and fat set up certainly works better for my drones. I think it's due to my multi-fuel tanks structure. Where in a long and slim drone, once the laser pierce in, it might ruptures all fuel tanks. But in a shrot and fat, the laser need to cut through the entire front just to get all the fuel tanks. It might caused the drones to get shot more easily, but since when is kinetic and missile the main danger to a drones? Though the only issue I have with this is that my missile now looks like giant ice-cream cone. Makes sense - worse armor, bigger cross section but much better internal structure. Thing is that it doesn't work well with smaller missiles. I'll test it when I can.
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Post by subunit on Nov 15, 2016 5:30:57 GMT
The short and fat set up certainly works better for my drones. I think it's due to my multi-fuel tanks structure. Where in a long and slim drone, once the laser pierce in, it might ruptures all fuel tanks. But in a shrot and fat, the laser need to cut through the entire front just to get all the fuel tanks. It might caused the drones to get shot more easily, but since when is kinetic and missile the main danger to a drones? Though the only issue I have with this is that my missile now looks like giant ice-cream cone. This is a cool idea. What are you using for your frontal armor?
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 15, 2016 5:39:15 GMT
The short and fat set up certainly works better for my drones. I think it's due to my multi-fuel tanks structure. Where in a long and slim drone, once the laser pierce in, it might ruptures all fuel tanks. But in a shrot and fat, the laser need to cut through the entire front just to get all the fuel tanks. It might caused the drones to get shot more easily, but since when is kinetic and missile the main danger to a drones? Though the only issue I have with this is that my missile now looks like giant ice-cream cone. This is a cool idea. What are you using for your frontal armor? amimai boron-graphite aerogel-boron-amorphous carbon-diamond armor composition and...my guns. Yes, I used my guns as extra armor, laser just LOVE to try to destroy guns futilely. By futile, I meant it's because my drones has 20 guns, so it will take a longggg time before my drone will run out of guns to shoot. Here one example. Super multi gun drones are a joke when I first made them but somehow they become viable after laser become actually lethal again. I might switch out diamond for graphite though, after someone mentioned that it might actually work well against laser.
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 15, 2016 5:47:34 GMT
Confirmed, five thin layers seems to work really well. Tested it against a variety of laser types and worked well against all of them. ~11% less mass per missile and half the cost.
And holy cow! Icecream cone of DOOOOOOOHHHHM!!!
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 15, 2016 5:49:27 GMT
Confirmed, five thin layers seems to work really well. Tested it against a variety of laser types and worked well against all of them. ~11% less mass per missile and half the cost. And holy cow! Icecream cone of DOOOOOOOHHHHM!!! Would multiple layer of silica gel works well?
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 15, 2016 5:50:15 GMT
I'm not sure, but I did think of trying it. Too tired to do more tonight though. I'll catch some sleep and try it in the morning.
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Post by subunit on Nov 15, 2016 5:57:27 GMT
This is a cool idea. What are you using for your frontal armor? amimai boron-graphite aerogel-boron-amorphous carbon-diamond armor composition and...my guns. Yes, I used my guns as extra armor, laser just LOVE to try to destroy guns futilely. By futile, I meant it's because my drones has 20 guns, so it will take a longggg time before my drone will run out of guns to shoot. Here one example. Super multi gun drones are a joke when I first made them but somehow they become viable after laser become actually lethal again. I might switch out diamond for graphite though, after someone mentioned that it might actually work well against laser. What's the turret armored with? I'll have to try this specific configuration- whenever I had a nose mount gun and intercepted a laser boat, the laser just burnt through the center gun and cored the thing out. TBH, the AI should probably target armor breaches with its lasers over a new turret.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 15, 2016 10:31:02 GMT
Silica aerogel, 10 cm of them.
On ALL OF THE GUN TURRETS.
It's cheap and light weight and laser armor only works with multiple layer so I picked silica gel anyway.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 15, 2016 14:16:42 GMT
Would multiple layer of silica gel works well? I tested it and had relatively bad result. Same with Amorphous carbon / silical aerogel sandwitch. But I didn't had thick layer of silica so maybe. As for the size thing. I know it doesn't make sense, I believe its true mostly for very small target, I suspect its due to a shortcut on how laser damage is applied. My test was done only on missile below 50kg. It might be different on bigger missile.
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