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Post by dwwolf on Nov 11, 2016 18:04:09 GMT
I prefer boron as turret armour, diamond is good at stopping lasers but high kinetic rounds will strip it easily, I have not found what is the "best" but I have found boron is a very good average my tests are simple I launch 60 missiles and see how many make it past 2 of my rainbow brigade frigates (1MW worth of lasers in all the colours I can make em) survival ##/60 - inside/outside - (unless stated otherwise layers are adjusted to equal mass and total to 10% missile mass) 51 - aramind 28 - diamond 52 - amorphous 31 - boron 56 - graphite gel 59 - silica gel 35 - boron/diamond 42 - amorphous carbon/diamond 57 - graphite gel/diamond 47 - boron/aramind/diamond 35 - boron/graphite gel/boron/amorphous/diamond 60 - boron/graphite gel/boron/(7cm gap)/amorphous/diamond yes 6cm gap turns that into voodoo armour, impervious to all damage... rad proof, spall resistant, laser immune, nuke proof and it may even be able to make you breakfast in bed! the actual missile itself (sans 50MT warheads) usually used to create a second sun and kill everything in 10km radius with a baptism of nuclear fire I did a bit more exhaustive test to work out exactly how much this is better then silica the bodon composite is... vs 4 of the rainbow brigade cruisers, admittedly not that accurate since not all ships focused on one missile all the time so I launched only 3 missiles silica lost 3 missiles, the boron composite only lost 2 and one of them was a last-second death at >1km Specs on the nuke and Engine svp? 5 seperate warheads or 1 stack of 5 ? Also....isnt that alot of tank weight and volume wasted on all those small tanks ?
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Post by Drahkan on Nov 11, 2016 20:37:55 GMT
Yep . I just started and frankly for the moment I can't really say anything... the last pure boron layer for example shouldn't really affect much the anti-laser properties but it seems, for the few tests that I did, to have a positive effect. Frankly, no idea why. I briefly tested thinner diamond layer instead of the boron nitride and I seemed to be getting worse results. Boron may not have the thermal conductivity of carbon, but it's a metalloid so is a good insulator at lower temps and a good conductor at higher temps, which sounds to me like the perfect combo of attributes for a secondary layer in a composite anti-laser armor. Add to that it's good anti-slug properties and it's no wonder it's the go-to material in the game.
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Post by amimai on Nov 12, 2016 1:09:37 GMT
Specs on the nuke and Engine svp? 5 seperate warheads or 1 stack of 5 ? Also....isnt that alot of tank weight and volume wasted on all those small tanks ? engine : i.imgur.com/qL0b2sJ.png?1nuke : i.imgur.com/qL0b2sJ.png?15 separate warheads I use sets of tanks and don't usually bother to make more/better ones cause I am lazy
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 12, 2016 2:22:59 GMT
Considering the danger of laser, I say that separated tanks are actually beneficial. Laser fire can't automatically target fuel tank anyway, so having multiple of them increase the chance of your missile or drones reaching the target. I know that because I tested it out. This is my 20 guns drones design which is actually quite viable now because the extra guns will distract the laser fire long enough that the drone can reach the target and kill it off. This drone managed to solo a freaking Solar Lance. The image showed the viability of separated fuel tanks because everything literally failed in this drone against the fight with a Solar Lance. Gun distraction, armor, all melted away from the 300 MW laser. Hell it melted through the back armor!!! But the extra fuel tank kept it alive long enough to live for another fight.
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Post by bigbombr on Nov 12, 2016 7:55:33 GMT
Considering the danger of laser, I say that separated tanks are actually beneficial. Laser fire can't automatically target fuel tank anyway, so having multiple of them increase the chance of your missile or drones reaching the target. I know that because I tested it out. This is my 20 guns drones design which is actually quite viable now because the extra guns will distract the laser fire long enough that the drone can reach the target and kill it off. This drone managed to solo a freaking Solar Lance. The image showed the viability of separated fuel tanks because everything literally failed in this drone against the fight with a Solar Lance. Gun distraction, armor, all melted away from the 300 MW laser. Hell it melted through the back armor!!! But the extra fuel tank kept it alive long enough to live for another fight. What is it's performance against a 1 GW laser (with a 1 Mm range) from the laser thread?
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Post by dwwolf on Nov 12, 2016 10:27:15 GMT
Specs on the nuke and Engine svp? 5 seperate warheads or 1 stack of 5 ? Also....isnt that alot of tank weight and volume wasted on all those small tanks ? engine : i.imgur.com/qL0b2sJ.png?1nuke : i.imgur.com/qL0b2sJ.png?15 separate warheads I use sets of tanks and don't usually bother to make more/better ones cause I am lazy Errr I hate to be a bother but you posted the engine twice.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 12, 2016 12:25:00 GMT
Considering the danger of laser, I say that separated tanks are actually beneficial. Laser fire can't automatically target fuel tank anyway, so having multiple of them increase the chance of your missile or drones reaching the target. I know that because I tested it out. This is my 20 guns drones design which is actually quite viable now because the extra guns will distract the laser fire long enough that the drone can reach the target and kill it off. This drone managed to solo a freaking Solar Lance. The image showed the viability of separated fuel tanks because everything literally failed in this drone against the fight with a Solar Lance. Gun distraction, armor, all melted away from the 300 MW laser. Hell it melted through the back armor!!! But the extra fuel tank kept it alive long enough to live for another fight. What is it's performance against a 1 GW laser (with a 1 Mm range) from the laser thread? Tried a test as soon as you mentioned that against my own 1 GW laser platform with 1 Mm range. It was quite intense to be honest but I can see the result when more than half of my drones traveled half way through. Out of 20 super multi-gun drone sent out, only 3 remain intact. The rests are either crippled or destroyed. But all 20 of them are considered lost anyway because they have no delta-V let to be retrieved. However, consider the cost, (Drones: 20 x 54400 = 1.088 Mc versus 1GW laser carrier = 18.4Mc), I say this result is quite worth it. Honestly, I was quite satisfied with the result because I think that nothing will survive such a long journey to kill laser carrier. Also one thing I noticed that can dramatically increase the suivivability of the drones. Ignore range. The gun drones end up packing so much gun that the bullets fired from ONE THOUSAND KILOMETERS away was able to shred through the laser carrier within quite a packed circle, saving at least half of the squadron as well as tons of delta-V.
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 12, 2016 20:52:12 GMT
OK I can do one better... I cant believe no one tested this, its blatantly obvious top (1.0mm)diamond (max conductor/hard armour) (0.7mm)amorphous carbon (max spec capacity to take all the heat diamond soaks up) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) (5.0mm)graphite aerogel (another good heat capacitor and bulking layer to stop spalling) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) bottom you can shoot at this stuff all day with lasers, not do much of anything will happen to it (until the amorphous carbon actually melts... its also surprisingly cheap) I tried this mix against the solar lance this morning and their lifespan was measured in pico-seconds. I wonder if wavelength has something to do with it? Everyone else seems to be testing against green and violet wavelength lasers
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Post by Drahkan on Nov 12, 2016 21:03:06 GMT
I tried this mix against the solar lance this morning and their lifespan was measured in pico-seconds. I wonder if wavelength has something to do with it? Everyone else seems to be testing against green and violet wavelength lasers Hmm, probably, which means that "the best" anti-laser armor probably needs 2 thin top layers that cover the light spectrum. But I don't understand the science behind that, let alone have the time to figure out what that combo would be. (...and by "not enough time" I obviously mean that I'm spending it testing other fairly pointless things, such as my current attempt at optimizing missile remote controls. )
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 12, 2016 21:39:09 GMT
The only material I'm getting consistent results on turrets is Aramid fiber. I had some luck with this hull armor setup against the Solar Lance (isn't it adowable?): (disregard the Vandium-Steel cap, it only covers the leading 40% of the ship for ballistic procection, I don't think it was a deciding factor in the test)
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 13, 2016 0:55:14 GMT
OK I can do one better... I cant believe no one tested this, its blatantly obvious top (1.0mm)diamond (max conductor/hard armour) (0.7mm)amorphous carbon (max spec capacity to take all the heat diamond soaks up) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) (5.0mm)graphite aerogel (another good heat capacitor and bulking layer to stop spalling) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) bottom you can shoot at this stuff all day with lasers, not do much of anything will happen to it (until the amorphous carbon actually melts... its also surprisingly cheap) I tried this mix against the solar lance this morning and their lifespan was measured in pico-seconds. I wonder if wavelength has something to do with it? Everyone else seems to be testing against green and violet wavelength lasers Strange, I used that armor for my drone and missile and they survive pretty well. Though I did used turret layered in 10 cm of silica gel for my drone.
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Post by amimai on Nov 13, 2016 2:26:44 GMT
did you remember to put a space between graphite and boron? the space is important, you can see my other tests for that. Without space its survival is terrible, with space it becomes god like... also did you remember to scale up the armour, that pattern is a pattern I used for fairly tiny missiles, its a 1/1/1/1/1 by mass spread of armour so scale it up accordingly to match ship size and dimension...
I actually figured out how it works more or less after watching lasers burn holes in one of my capital ships for a while
carbon/diamond layer seems to ablate heavily, while graphite high heat capacity makes it nigh impregnable to simple thermal damage. This takes the kick out narrow penetrating beams, and simply ignores the existence of large beams entirely because they cant burn through...
the boron/graphite gell/boron layer then acts as a sponge, taking in any penetrating beam energy and dissipating it after the diamond layer brought down its total beam energy
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 13, 2016 3:41:51 GMT
did you remember to put a space between graphite and boron? the space is important, you can see my other tests for that. Without space its survival is terrible, with space it becomes god like... also did you remember to scale up the armour, that pattern is a pattern I used for fairly tiny missiles, its a 1/1/1/1/1 by mass spread of armour so scale it up accordingly to match ship size and dimension... I actually figured out how it works more or less after watching lasers burn holes in one of my capital ships for a while carbon/diamond layer seems to ablate heavily, while graphite high heat capacity makes it nigh impregnable to simple thermal damage. This takes the kick out narrow penetrating beams, and simply ignores the existence of large beams entirely because they cant burn through... the boron/graphite gell/boron layer then acts as a sponge, taking in any penetrating beam energy and dissipating it after the diamond layer brought down its total beam energy I had the 7cm gap in there. Let me boot it back up and give it another go and I'll BRB... EDIT: Sorry, just ran it again. Against the 300 MW IR laser it's being out-performed by straight sil-gel. The oxygen tank is near the front of the missile, I wonder if it's being ruptured just from the heat? Let me switch it around with the decane tank and see if that helps. EDIT 2: Moving the tanks around had no effect, the same mass of sil-gel offered superior protection. Here's a picture of the missile, maybe that will give up some clue: I am really starting to wonder if wavelength has something to do with it... or perhaps my missiles are too small to be able to absorb much heat before *poof*
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Post by amimai on Nov 13, 2016 4:54:52 GMT
hmmm i just discovered something... testing armor on missiles without warheads is a bad idea missiles without warheads keep going until totally destroyed, missiles with warheads explode edit: and now to thoroughly confuse things... the test missile WITH explosive inside now has 100% survival rate because nose cone shape changed... but yea it seems my results were a weird anomaly because of reasons and voodoo... I did call it voodoo armour at some point didn't I? my results are ending up all over the place, one set it works like literal black magic, the next I change 1 or 2 variables and it becomes useless, argh!!! just coat your missile in silica gel or graphite it seems that is more reliable then fiddling around with voodoo magic... voodoo armour working ...this missile has been shot by that ship for over a minute for the grand total of nil damage other then ablating away a tiny bit of the diamond outer armour and that ship pumps out around 2GW of laser energy through 24 sets of 100MW lasers in every wavelength possible change one variable and it will melt the missile whole...
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Post by Drahkan on Nov 13, 2016 23:46:10 GMT
I've wasted waaaay too much time determining basically nothing other than "aramid fiber backed by carbon is pretty much all you need to stop lasers, but it doesn't do jack squat in preventing slugs from turning your missile into Swiss cheese and/or making it flip around like a stick you've thrown while playing 'catch' with your dog." But as far as that's concerned, it seems to work. 1.5mm Aramid backed by 1cm of Amorphous Carbon seems to stop any stock lasers just fine. Doesn't mean it will block the various, awesome lasers people have built and posted here, but I'm not one of those laser-happy people so I don't really know about that.
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