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Post by Drahkan on Nov 10, 2016 23:43:24 GMT
Have you tested boron nitride ? I'm getting way better results for the same weight than silica... I have to test it properly however, the tests I do now a not very representative... After my tests with Aramid Fiber vs. Basalt Fiber and Silica Aerogel, I have just switched all my armors over to Aramid (reducing thickness and price to be equivalent to the previous aerogel or plain-ol'-boron costs, more or less) and have left it at that. I haven't had a much time to play/test since then, but unless I'm layering armor - in which case I see no reason to switch from my usual setup(s) anyway - it currently seems like choosing anything other than aramid is just betting on your opponent "only" using lasers, which seems silly if aramid gives about the same protection but can also bounce a slug or two.
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 11, 2016 0:11:38 GMT
Now everyone is just panicking for a better laser armor because now DOOM GIGAWATT LASER is too much for normal craft to handle. Nah, no panic; this isn't a MMO after all. ;P ...plus I think the idea of slathering down my ships with gel is kinda gross anyway. But getting involved in long-winded, unusually-technical-and-over-tested-for-no-real-reason-other-than-self-entertainment forum threads? Now THAT is the sort of stuff that keeps me up late at night. I ALWAYS make sure my rocket is well slathered in gel before using it
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Post by ross128 on Nov 11, 2016 0:23:16 GMT
With how expensive aramid is, for missiles it might be more cost-effective to just add more gel and use the Zap Brannigan strategy.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 11, 2016 0:31:43 GMT
With how expensive aramid is, for missiles it might be more cost-effective to just add more gel and use the Zap Brannigan strategy. It honestly depends on the cost of your missiles. For cheap micro missile, just spam it or cover it in more gel. For bigger missiles, you need better defense.
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Post by Drahkan on Nov 11, 2016 0:44:11 GMT
With how expensive aramid is, for missiles it might be more cost-effective to just add more gel and use the Zap Brannigan strategy. That's the thing, though; the drones I tested with were 19m long, 45 ton Things, where 3mm of aramid cost and weighs about the same as 7cm of silica aerogel...which ends up being almost the same defensive ability versus lasers, let alone slugs. Back either with heavier armor and I'm pretty sure the aramid will win out every time.
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Post by amimai on Nov 11, 2016 1:25:11 GMT
OK I can do one better... I cant believe no one tested this, its blatantly obvious
top (1.0mm)diamond (max conductor/hard armour) (0.7mm)amorphous carbon (max spec capacity to take all the heat diamond soaks up) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) (5.0mm)graphite aerogel (another good heat capacitor and bulking layer to stop spalling) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) bottom
you can shoot at this stuff all day with lasers, not do much of anything will happen to it (until the amorphous carbon actually melts... its also surprisingly cheap)
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Post by Durandal on Nov 11, 2016 1:27:09 GMT
OK I can do one better... I cant believe no one tested this, its blatantly obvious top (1.0mm)diamond (max conductor/hard armour) (0.7mm)amorphous carbon (max spec capacity to take all the heat diamond soaks up) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) (5.0mm)graphite aerogel (another good heat capacitor and bulking layer to stop spalling) (1.0mm)boron (hard bulk armour) bottom you can shoot at this stuff all day with lasers, not do much of anything will happen to it (until the amorphous carbon actually melts...) I had very good results last night using diamond as turret armor.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 11, 2016 1:37:38 GMT
I'm just gonna try armoring my drone with either Boron and Diamond.
Hoping that the weight that will definitely decrease their Delta V would be worth it.
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Post by amimai on Nov 11, 2016 2:42:43 GMT
I prefer boron as turret armour, diamond is good at stopping lasers but high kinetic rounds will strip it easily, I have not found what is the "best" but I have found boron is a very good average my tests are simple I launch 60 missiles and see how many make it past 2 of my rainbow brigade frigates (1MW worth of lasers in all the colours I can make em) survival ##/60 - inside/outside - (unless stated otherwise layers are adjusted to equal mass and total to 10% missile mass) 51 - aramind 28 - diamond 52 - amorphous 31 - boron 56 - graphite gel 59 - silica gel 35 - boron/diamond 42 - amorphous carbon/diamond 57 - graphite gel/diamond 47 - boron/aramind/diamond 35 - boron/graphite gel/boron/amorphous/diamond 60 - boron/graphite gel/boron/(7cm gap)/amorphous/diamond yes 6cm gap turns that into voodoo armour, impervious to all damage... rad proof, spall resistant, laser immune, nuke proof and it may even be able to make you breakfast in bed! the actual missile itself (sans 50MT warheads) usually used to create a second sun and kill everything in 10km radius with a baptism of nuclear fire I did a bit more exhaustive test to work out exactly how much this is better then silica the bodon composite is... vs 4 of the rainbow brigade cruisers, admittedly not that accurate since not all ships focused on one missile all the time so I launched only 3 missiles silica lost 3 missiles, the boron composite only lost 2 and one of them was a last-second death at >1km
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Post by Durandal on Nov 11, 2016 3:04:04 GMT
Wait, what? (I'll give that armor setup a test and see how it does)
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Post by amimai on Nov 11, 2016 3:11:33 GMT
I usually put 5x10MT nuclear warheads in them, they are fleet killer missiles
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Post by concretedonkey on Nov 11, 2016 5:16:36 GMT
Have you tested boron nitride ? I'm getting way better results for the same weight than silica... I have to test it properly however, the tests I do now a not very representative... After my tests with Aramid Fiber vs. Basalt Fiber and Silica Aerogel, I have just switched all my armors over to Aramid (reducing thickness and price to be equivalent to the previous aerogel or plain-ol'-boron costs, more or less) and have left it at that. I haven't had a much time to play/test since then, but unless I'm layering armor - in which case I see no reason to switch from my usual setup(s) anyway - it currently seems like choosing anything other than aramid is just betting on your opponent "only" using lasers, which seems silly if aramid gives about the same protection but can also bounce a slug or two. After a bit more testing it seems that the good results with boron nitride are only at large distances. Frankly I did not have the relatively positive "aerogel is a bit worse but still works" everybody is seem to be getting my guess is that I have unintentionally hit the anti aerogel laser properties at 1000km. I'm testing against five of my pre-patch main defence 200MWs 84cm violet lasers and at the start none of the armors could survive the dash at this distance. Not aramid fiber , not silica, diamond , amorphous carbon ... nothing... . So amimai is on to something with the multiple layers - I seem to be getting much better results at all distances with something like boron-graphite aerogel-boron nitride on the outer layer.
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Post by Drahkan on Nov 11, 2016 6:27:51 GMT
After a bit more testing it seems that the good results with boron nitride are only at large distances. Frankly I did not have the relatively positive "aerogel is a bit worse but still works" everybody is seem to be getting ... So amimai is on to something with the multiple layers - I seem to be getting much better results at all distances with something like boron-graphite aerogel-boron nitride on the outer layer. The moment you start layering armor your results are going to become exponentially more complex. Even from one day to the next I couldn't duplicate the "aerogel still seems to be a good option" statement; slapping it on top of/between/below another type of armor, especially with varying thicknesses and/or air gaps, and you could test for months and still not come to any solid conclusions.
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Post by concretedonkey on Nov 11, 2016 6:34:30 GMT
The moment you start layering armor your results are going to become exponentially more complex. Even from one day to the next I couldn't duplicate the "aerogel still seems to be a good option" statement; slapping it on top of/between/below another type of armor, especially with varying thicknesses and/or air gaps, and you could test for months and still not come to any solid conclusions. Yep . I just started and frankly for the moment I can't really say anything... the last pure boron layer for example shouldn't really affect much the anti-laser properties but it seems, for the few tests that I did, to have a positive effect. Frankly, no idea why. I briefly tested thinner diamond layer instead of the boron nitride and I seemed to be getting worse results.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 11, 2016 6:50:07 GMT
I usually put 5x10MT nuclear warheads in them, they are fleet killer missiles Well that explains the price. I almost pop my eyes out when I saw your '50 MT' missiles being priced 100 Kc only. EDIT: Well, amimai. I want to thank you for your armor composition because it finally makes my capital missiles and drones last longer than 2 seconds. Also it makes multi-gun drones viable again. Because the laser would spend so much time lasing the guns, the drones last so damn long it was capable of soloing a laser frigate on its own.
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