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Post by ash19256 on Dec 1, 2016 16:58:32 GMT
Is it even possible to go past 2.20e+020 neutron flux and still have the reactor run for long enough?
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 1, 2016 22:38:40 GMT
Is it even possible to go past 2.20e+020 neutron flux and still have the reactor run for long enough? Use moderator. It's not pretty, but it works.
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Post by apophys on Dec 2, 2016 0:10:30 GMT
- lower power reactors are more efficient, 2x1GW will be in all ways better then 1x2GW with the exception of crew cost I am seeing the exact opposite. If you compare my reactors in the OP, a set of 10 of any reactor is heavier and costlier than a single one of the higher tier (and same temperature).
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Post by amimai on Dec 2, 2016 2:27:11 GMT
its there, but you dont see it in the post for one simple reason... temperature changes reactor behaviour with size
2400 : larger reactors more efficient 2500 : larger reactors marginaly more efficient 2600 : smaller reactors more efficient (significantly so, something like 5% gain for every 50% output reduction)
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Post by tessfield on Dec 3, 2016 20:32:39 GMT
<snip> Tessfield 1.6 MT device </snip> Added your design to the list, thanks for sharing! PS Thank you for making me think of myself as a 1.6 MT device, I have a new life goal amimai I like that information table more it's more readable/easier to understand, I'll add the extra info on the next page as well
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Post by ash19256 on Dec 3, 2016 22:39:46 GMT
Okay, can someone who has actually done it recreate cubit's 8MW laser design? We don't get to see enough of the actually important things about the laser to figure out how to recreate it in our games.
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Post by someusername6 on Dec 4, 2016 0:47:18 GMT
Okay, can someone who has actually done it recreate cubit's 8MW laser design? We don't get to see enough of the actually important things about the laser to figure out how to recreate it in our games. I think this is mostly a faithful recreation from that. I can't match the pumping * cavity shape from that design, but I can get a larger overall efficiency (4.40%) from same power (8 MW) and aperture (2.1 m) by improving the design elsewhere. I would also rather use less / lighter armor, but here it is. LaserModule 8.00 MW Titanium:Sapphire Violet Laser Cubit Reverse Engineered UsesCustomName true ArcLamp GasComposition Xenon EnvelopeComposition Silver PowerSupplied_W 8e+006 Radius_m 0.04 CavityWallComposition Silver CavityCoolantComposition Hydrogen CavitySemimajorAxis_m 0.6 CavitySemiminorAxis_m 0.59 GainMedium Titanium:Sapphire OpticalNodes 10000000 LasingRodRadius_m 0.058 Mirror Composition Silver OutputCoupler Composition Fused Quartz CoolantTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.11 RotationalSpeed_RPM 2000 CoolantInletTemperature_K 1200 FrequencyDoubler NonlinearOptic Composition Silver Gallium Selenide OpticLength_m 0.1 OpticRadius_m 0.0043 ApertureRadius_m 2.1 FocusingMirror Composition Aluminum Turret InnerRadius_m 4.46 ArmorComposition Boron Carbide ArmorThickness_m 0.005 MomentumWheels Composition Lead RotationalSpeed_RPM 50 EngagementRange_km 200 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
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Post by mmmfriedrice on Dec 4, 2016 2:42:31 GMT
Okay, can someone who has actually done it recreate cubit's 8MW laser design? We don't get to see enough of the actually important things about the laser to figure out how to recreate it in our games. cubit's original post has both images that are necessary to make the laser.
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Post by amimai on Dec 4, 2016 5:31:59 GMT
EWWW that laser... your using a silver cavity. my lasers diamond molybdenum are much better, they have a 2200k outlet temperature and their radiators can fir on a dime (1 sec ill post design) also you would be better off building a laser with a smaller aperture and a smaller turret and sticking 10 of them on your ship (it will work out better and more damaging) realistically you are looking at around 50kg/1MW in ship weight so having a system that's several hundred tones only using 8MW is kind of a joke doubling the aperture diameter increases the intensity by 4x, the cost by 5x and the mass by 6x its really not a good trade off some key guidelines for making your laser: mass: 50-100kg/MW thermostable materials: Diamond, Molybdenum, tungsten (focusing mirror should be silver since it does not have heat issues) optical nodes : as few as you need to get M2=3.01 rod radius: smaller is better, larger rods simply add cost outlet temp: 2000k+ Aperture: first set up your turret ball to match mass, then set up aperture so you have 65deg ark (6 lasers for 360 coverage with overlaps) armour: boron, aim for around 20cm armour for every 100cm turret so they don't break off so easily reaction wheel: polyethylene, cheap, light and perfect for lasers (better then lithium because you can get rpm>10) to shrink your optical nodes: to keep m2=3 with less nodes you need to increase the cavity axis the laser system: the details: LaserModule 100 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 2 ArcLamp GasComposition Krypton EnvelopeComposition Diamond PowerSupplied_W 1e+008 Radius_m 0.01 CavityWallComposition Molybdenum CavityCoolantComposition Hydrogen CavitySemimajorAxis_m 0.24 CavitySemiminorAxis_m 0.23 GainMedium Nd:YAG OpticalNodes 3000000 LasingRodRadius_m 0.03 Mirror Composition Tungsten OutputCoupler Composition Diamond CoolantTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.45 RotationalSpeed_RPM 320 CoolantInletTemperature_K 2200 FrequencyDoubler NonlinearOptic Composition Silver Gallium Selenide OpticLength_m 0.035 OpticRadius_m 0.0083 ApertureRadius_m 0.21 FocusingMirror Composition Silver Turret InnerRadius_m 0.75 ArmorComposition Boron ArmorThickness_m 0.22 ReactionWheels Composition Polyethylene RotationalSpeed_RPM 5600 EngagementRange_km 200 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
and what it looks like on a drone: and the mass breakdown (do note the near 1:1 balance in cost and mass between laser and radiator/power) EDIT: by following my own rules I have made an even better laser system, its perfect for my emerald butterflies! pictures components: Laser (Optimised 90MW) LaserModule 90.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser ArcLamp GasComposition Krypton EnvelopeComposition Diamond PowerSupplied_W 9e+007 Radius_m 0.01 CavityWallComposition Molybdenum CavityCoolantComposition Hydrogen CavitySemimajorAxis_m 0.68 CavitySemiminorAxis_m 0.67 GainMedium Nd:YAG OpticalNodes 2000000 LasingRodRadius_m 0.021 Mirror Composition Tungsten OutputCoupler Composition Diamond CoolantTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.45 RotationalSpeed_RPM 320 CoolantInletTemperature_K 2200 FrequencyDoubler NonlinearOptic Composition Silver Gallium Selenide OpticLength_m 0.035 OpticRadius_m 0.0083 ApertureRadius_m 0.22 FocusingMirror Composition Silver Turret InnerRadius_m 0.78 ArmorComposition Boron ArmorThickness_m 0.18 ReactionWheels Composition Polyethylene RotationalSpeed_RPM 5100 EngagementRange_km 200 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
reactor (mini 1.5t/91MW) ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 91.1 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.1 0.1 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 9 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition U-233 Dioxide ControlRodMass_kg 2 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 2e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.42 RotationalSpeed_RPM 600 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1 3.5 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tungsten NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2500 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Calcium PumpRadius_m 0.18 RotationalSpeed_RPM 340
thruster (armoured 30MW resistor) ResistojetModule 6.32 km/s 30.0 MW Decane Gimballed Resistojet PowerSupplied_W 3e+007 Propellant Decane CoilComposition Tantalum Hafnium Carbide ChamberLength_m 0.01 CoilRadius_m 0.0001 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Diamond ThroatRadius_m 0.029 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.02 ChamberContractionRatio 17 NozzleExpansionRatio 60 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 8.8 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 1 Injector Composition Diamond PumpRadius_m 0.07 RotationalSpeed_RPM 6000 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.12 ArmorComposition Boron ArmorThickness_m 0.17 ReactionWheels Composition Nickel RotationalSpeed_RPM 29000 GimbalAngle_degrees 25
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Post by apophys on Dec 4, 2016 12:20:54 GMT
EWWW that laser... your using a silver cavity. my lasers diamond molybdenum are much better, they have a 2200k outlet temperature and their radiators can fir on a dime (1 sec ill post design) also you would be better off building a laser with a smaller aperture and a smaller turret and sticking 10 of them on your ship (it will work out better and more damaging) realistically you are looking at around 50kg/1MW in ship weight so having a system that's several hundred tones only using 8MW is kind of a joke doubling the aperture diameter increases the intensity by 4x, the cost by 5x and the mass by 6x its really not a good trade off some key guidelines for making your laser: mass: 50-100kg/MW thermostable materials: Diamond, Molybdenum, tungsten (focusing mirror should be silver since it does not have heat issues) optical nodes : as few as you need to get M2=3.01 rod radius: smaller is better, larger rods simply add cost outlet temp: 2000k+ Aperture: first set up your turret ball to match mass, then set up aperture so you have 65deg ark (6 lasers for 360 coverage with overlaps) armour: boron, aim for around 20cm armour for every 100cm turret so they don't break off so easily reaction wheel: polyethylene, cheap, light and perfect for lasers (better then lithium because you can get rpm>10) to shrink your optical nodes: to keep m2=3 with less nodes you need to increase the cavity axis I tried high-temperature lasers; it's near the start of the old lasers thread. The problem with them is that efficiency takes a huge hit, and the savings in radiators isn't worth it. You lose ~55% of laser efficiency while saving ~90% of the laser's radiators; this looks great at first glance. But you have to think about the whole power system; total radiator area (laser+reactor) only scales down ~55%. And you continue to use the same cost/weight of laser & reactor, so it's strictly worse. Oddly enough, silver cavities with their 1234K temperature remain superior. Putting an amount of mass per MW is very misleading. For your turret, most of the turret's mass is armor and reaction wheel. My laser turrets just have 4-10 cm of silica aerogel, so they differ greatly (one 100MW laser I have, with 94cm aperture, weighs ~700kg). 45 degrees traverse (the minimum possible) is certainly enough, regardless of the yellow warning thrown by the game. Smaller rods are only better for green lasers (like yours). This does not apply to purple. The range on your laser is really short. Bigger range is an overwhelming advantage in combat. Aperture should only be dictated by the intensity you desire at 1 Mm range (because there really isn't any downside to extending your range as far as it can go). For 100MW green, the aperture should be at least around 1m to get usable intensity at 1Mm range. A smaller cavity is a reduction in mass. This reduction would be fairly significant if you had very little armor, like I do. Eventually I'll post my own lasers, but I need to do some more R&D first; they're not OP enough yet.
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Post by amimai on Dec 4, 2016 13:08:32 GMT
it really depends what kind of radiators you are using and what kind of armour you want to put on your ship... a 1m diameter turret with several cm of boron can take a hit from some really nasty things like highV shrapnel bombs, remember once the turret goes you have a hole in your armour which is bad... if said hole is 30m across then again one thing to note, using the 16m aperture turret using a 5MW laser I created a death star that vaporised its way through 15m or boron armour without much issue. on turret sizes for offensive lasers: for 45.1deg (minimum turret designs for light flywheels) spot diameter does not change with increase of laser power output, only m-rating changes spot diameter aperture m
| radius m
| MW/m^2 output at 200km for 10MW beam m=3
| Spot diameter cm
| Turret Mass using lithium flywheels
| .41 | 0.87 | 11.7
| 104
| 1.67
| 0.8 | 1.7 | 44.6
| 53
| 1.78
| 1.6 | 3.4 | 179
| 27
| 2.32
| 2.4 | 5.1 | 402
| 18
| 3.53
| 3.2 | 6.8 | 714
| 13
| 5.63t
| 4.1 | 8.7 | 1170
| 10
| 4.89t (45.0deg)
| 8.0 | 17.0 | 4460
| 5.3
| 50.7t
| 16.0 | 34.0 | 17900
| 2.6
| 395t
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 6, 2016 5:44:01 GMT
The as-is instructions for the 1 GW Apophys (2500K, not the 2400K Mark II) do not appear to work. imgur.com/a/OhVPDExpanding the reactor core dimensions causes a loss of criticality. You need to add approx 50kg of diamond (and massively increased reactor core size) to produce a valid reactor.
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Post by amimai on Dec 6, 2016 9:02:17 GMT
BTW: I just ran some tests (per mass equalised) lasers (12x 1.5MW output, 5MW intensity) (measured as time to kill 20 turrets) Silica gel : highest survival (10 seconds) Amorphous carbon : 90% of Silica gel Diamond : 45% survival Boron : 30% survival osmium : 15% survival vanadium chromium : 10% survival time Nukes 10MT nukes at 6km detonation Silica gel : 12/12 40x10MT (ship died because diamond radiators melted) Amorphous carbon : 83% survive 4x10MT Diamond : 83% survive 2x10MT Boron: 60% survive 2x10MT osmium : 0% survival 1x10MT vanadium chromium : 0% survival 1x10MT Shrapnel 20 missiles carrying 600m/s 700x6g + 10x500g frags detonating at 1.5km range (survival>50% break even point in brackets) Silica gel : 0% this stuff wont survive a harsh sneez even if you put 1m on... Amorphous carbon : 5cm, 4t Diamond : 3cm, 4t Boron: 3.9cm, 3t osmium : 5.3mm, 4.5t vanadium chromium : 1.1cm, 3t so: for general purpose you want amorphous carbon, its cheap, its strong, its a wonder material, and you only need around 4mm to stand up to most things for money and 'murica and EXTRA FREEDOM! you can use silicon aerogel, it is as good vs lasers, balls at stopping any projectile, but will survive the soviet nuclear alpha strike Boron is pretty good as armour if you are particularly working to counter kinetics, but otherwise fairly bad may be relevant also I did a lot of testing on rail gun materials recently: for barrel: best speed : Zirconium Copper best mass : aluminium copper lithium (33% less speed, 50% less mass&cost) for projectile (best material changes to purpose): light super velocity rail gun : Amorphous carbon (this causes minimal barrel stress at 50k+ velocity) Heavy Mass Rail gun : osmium (you can safely and effectively launch 100g of this at 30km/s+) shuttle material (for payload narrow) : Osmium (100g payload to 20km/s is ez) shuttle material (for payload wide) : beryllium (expensive but best) aluminium zinc magnesium (cheap but 5% slower) if shuttle material melts : gamma titanium aluminium (15% slower then beryllium but 100x as thermostable, also inexpensive) rail guns have 2 "peaks" fore velocity depending on bore radius, one at 5mm or less, this is best for projectiles and gives high velocity, the second at 2cm or more, this gives the best performance when launching payloads.
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Post by apophys on Dec 6, 2016 11:21:35 GMT
The as-is instructions for the 1 GW Apophys (2500K, not the 2400K Mark II) do not appear to work. imgur.com/a/OhVPDExpanding the reactor core dimensions causes a loss of criticality. You need to add approx 50kg of diamond (and massively increased reactor core size) to produce a valid reactor. You used 15kg of boron nitride for the control rod. Use 15kg of U-233 dioxide instead, as per the instructions. It's much denser, so it fits.
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Post by amimai on Dec 6, 2016 11:31:38 GMT
some more notes on railgun warnings Shatter projectile : going too fast, lower velocity Rupture barrel : projectile is too light, increase mass (this actually does not decrease velocity in such case)
also: aluminium copper lithium as a coil gun barrel material is 25% lower velocity but 4x as light, matching results of rail guns (not that this matters, a 60MW 1g, 51km/s rail gun has a mass of only 5t)
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