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Post by AdmiralObvious on Aug 2, 2018 2:50:08 GMT
I don't have much time to game anymore, and I sort of am interested in seeing if any other players were interested in building the "standard" Gauss Rifle from BattleTech. My friend introduced me to the board game, and I've become obsessed with the brand.
I think it theoretically is a type of Coilgun, but it could be a Railgun, as that's not particularly clear Gauss is probably a thing of it's own, but might be able to be simulated with coils. It does have a capacitor, and can refire in the span of 10 seconds.
What I do know about it is that it fires a 30cm diameter (so 15cm radius) "watermelon" (so I'll guess a 1.5 aspect ratio) Nickel-Iron payload accurately out to a range of at least 660 meters under normal atmospheric conditions. In space it should be significantly further.
The reactors used to power these things are also fusion reactors, so I'm not opposed to black box modules being required to do this if needed (though apparently using this thing drains the power on a mech if used simultaneously with other energy type weapons like lasers and causes a delay in shooting the salvo).
The weapon also weighs 15 tons for a normal variant, but there's a 3 ton leeway for the heavy and light variants. Cost is no object though, especially in COADE terms.
A standard Gauss rifle should be able to penetrate a 1 ton monolithic steel plate however, though the specific steel type and height is never mentioned.
I hope this proves to be an interesting design challenge for anyone who decides to pursue it.
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Aug 2, 2018 6:44:33 GMT
"Gauss rifle" or "gauss gun" is established to be an alternative name for a coilgun.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Aug 2, 2018 7:23:03 GMT
"Gauss rifle" or "gauss gun" is established to be an alternative name for a coilgun. I thought so... not sure why I drew the blank earlier.
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Post by Pttg on Aug 2, 2018 20:11:13 GMT
That projectile is like 250kg minimum. Probably more.
I'm not great at optimizing coilguns, but good luck making that thing work with those specs.
One thing to note, effective ranges can be shorter in space, because (nearly) all targets move subsonically relative to you. So your targets are easier to hit with slower projectiles.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Aug 2, 2018 22:59:43 GMT
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Aug 3, 2018 1:04:40 GMT
The light gauss rifle fired around 116 rounds per turn, right?
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Post by someusername6 on Aug 3, 2018 5:11:15 GMT
You said you had a lot of power available, right? Some limit mods were used. Projectile mass computed to be approximately an ellipsoid of axis 15 cm, 15 cm, 22.5 cm.
A single munition shot is almost as expensive as the barrel. Power source not included.
CoilgunModule 10.0 GW 300mm Coilgun UsesCustomName false PowerConsumption_W 1e+10 Coil Composition Titanium WireRadius_m 0.0052 NumberOfTurns 5 NumberOfLayers 1 NumberOfStages 200 BarrelArmor Composition Graphite Aerogel Thickness_m 1.06 Armature Composition Nickel Iron BoreRadius_m 0.15 Mass_kg 173 Tracer Nickel Payload null Loader PowerConsumption_W 36500 ExternalMount true InternalMount false TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Aug 3, 2018 22:45:34 GMT
Yup, unless someone can figure out the specific maximum power output of the average 'Mech, I don't mind at all about limit editing.
Both of those coils look very probable to fit what I'm looking for too.
The only last thing to test is if it can penetrate a massive steel plate (I assume it can).
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Post by thorneel on Aug 4, 2018 19:13:58 GMT
How big is that 1 ton monolithic armour? 1m²? We need it to compute the thickness.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Aug 4, 2018 20:25:48 GMT
How big is that 1 ton monolithic armour? 1m²? We need it to compute the thickness. I mean "primitive armor" is a 1 ton plate of, presumably VCS ignoring any depleted uranium like most tanks. "Modern armor" is quoted as "Standard BattleMech armor is composed of several layers providing various degrees of protection and support. The first layer is extremely strong titanium alloyed with steel, the result of crystal alignment and radiation treatment, which is also very brittle. The second layer is a ceramic, cubic boron nitride, which combined with a web of artificial diamond fibers acts as a backstop to the steel layer. These two layers rest atop a titanium alloy honeycomb structure which provides support, and a layer of self-sealing polymer sealant which allows for space and underwater operations." We can model basically all of that in CDE, except for the polymer, so we'll ignore that one, considering it's mostly irrelevant. There's no specifics as to the thickness, but the average medium mech has a height of 60 feet. The torso taking up about 1/3 of the space in most cases. So I'll go with a conservative 10mx10m plate from the front.
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Aug 4, 2018 21:31:58 GMT
There's no specifics as to the thickness, but the average medium mech has a height of 60 meters. 12m IIRC. I've always considered huge combat mecha ridiculous, TBH - huge, towering targets full of single points of failure.
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Aug 5, 2018 0:56:53 GMT
There's no specifics as to the thickness, but the average medium mech has a height of 60 meters. 12m IIRC. I've always considered huge combat mecha ridiculous, TBH - huge, towering targets full of single points of failure. Probably, I was half asleep at the time of posting. I'm thinking of the assault mechs.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Aug 5, 2018 3:13:59 GMT
I've always considered huge combat mecha ridiculous, TBH - huge, towering targets full of single points of failure. My favourite thing about Battletech is that you can field an army of tanks instead, and they actually have the relative advantages you'd expect.
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Post by someusername6 on Aug 5, 2018 17:15:53 GMT
Results point to yes, after a single shot. I used armor of VCS with thickness of 1.33 m, as to represent approximately 1 ton of VCS for a 10m x 10m plate. I also used a blackbox power generator for the weapons platform, because I did want it to just look like a giant rifle -- and added a turret to it, because game is still terrible at relying on thrusters for aiming. Code for units on test used below. Target: RadiationShieldModule 1.00 m Diameter Lithium-6 Radiation Shield UsesCustomName false Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 0.5 0.01
RadiatorModule 10x2 Calcium Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Calcium PanelWidth_m 0.61 Height_m 2 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Titanium Nitride
CrewModule 10x4 Crew Module (Cheap) UsesCustomName true CrewCapacity 10 Decks 4 StructureMaterial Potassium ShellThickness_m 0.021
RadiatorModule 1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron Nitride PanelWidth_m 0.061 Height_m 0.01 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Titanium Nitride
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule [AE] 10.1 kW Reactor Description Version 1. By Apophys. UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.015 0.026 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Titanium Diboride ModeratorMass_kg 0.03 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 0.1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.0129 ControlRodComposition Titanium Diboride ControlRodMass_kg 0.01 NeutronReflector Tungsten ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.46e+19 InnerTurbopump Composition Boron Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.021 RotationalSpeed_RPM 226 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.03 0.01 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2500 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.01 RotationalSpeed_RPM 230
CraftBlueprint Cube Station Modules 10x4 Crew Module (Cheap) 3 0 null 0 0 [AE] 10.1 kW Reactor 1 -0.5 null 0 0 1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator 4 0.0044793 [AE] 10.1 kW Reactor 0 0 10x2 Calcium Radiator 1 0 10x4 Crew Module (Cheap) 0 0 1.00 m Diameter Lithium-6 Radiation Shield 1 -0.25 null 0 0 Armor Shape Square Concave false ArmorLayers Vanadium Chromium Steel 0.00133 0 0 1 1 0
Weapon: RadiatorModule 0.1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron Nitride PanelWidth_m 0.061 Height_m 0.01 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 2 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Titanium Nitride
PropellantTankModule 1.000 t Neon Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Neon StructureComposition Diamond ReactionMass_kg 1000 HeightToRadiusRatio 0.36 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
BlackBoxPowerModule 10 GW Fusion Battery PowerplantName 10 GW Fusion Battery ModelFileName Dimensions 1 2.5 Mass_kg 7855 PrimaryComposition Ice PowerProduction_W 1.01e+10 Efficiency_Percent 1 Coolant Sodium OutletMassFlow_kg__s 0.001 OutletTemperature_K 2500 RadiationHazard GammaRadiation_W 0 ThermalNeutronRadiation_W 0 FastNeutronRadiation_W 0
CoilgunModule 10.0 GW 300mm Turreted Coilgun UsesCustomName false PowerConsumption_W 1e+10 Coil Composition Titanium WireRadius_m 0.0052 NumberOfTurns 5 NumberOfLayers 1 NumberOfStages 200 BarrelArmor Composition Graphite Aerogel Thickness_m 1.06 Armature Composition Nickel Iron BoreRadius_m 0.15 Mass_kg 173 Tracer Nickel Payload null Loader PowerConsumption_W 36500 ExternalMount false InternalMount false Turret InnerRadius_m 1.75 Extruded true ArmorComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ArmorThickness_m 0.0013 AttachmentCount 1 ElectricActuators PermanentMagnet Neodymium Iron Boron PowerConsumption_W 2.7e+05 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
MagnetoplasmadynamicThrusterModule 168 km/s 10.0 GW Neon Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster UsesCustomName false CathodeRadius_m 0.0178 ChamberThickness_m 0.015 AnodeThickness_m 0.001 ThrusterLength_m 0.112 CathodeComposition Potassium AnodeComposition Depleted Uranium InsulatorComposition Polyethylene Propellant Neon Current_A 2.28e+05 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.07 RotationalSpeed_RPM 20.9 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.1 ArmorComposition Polytetrafluoroethylene ArmorThickness_m 0.005 AttachmentCount 1 MomentumWheels Composition Osmium RotationalSpeed_RPM 44000 GimbalAngle_degrees 90
RemoteControlModule Default Remote Control 2 UsesCustomName true AspectRatio 8 HomingBehavior PropellantForBoostPhase_Percent 0.65 BoostPhase GuidanceLaw AugmentedProportionalNavigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 0.5 MidcoursePhase GuidanceLaw AugmentedProportionalNavigation Accelerate false DampingEngineMultiplier 0.25 TerminalPhase GuidanceLaw AugmentedProportionalNavigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 1 IrradianceCutoff_Percent 0.5
AmmoModule 20x 300mm Coilgun Round UsesCustomName false SuppliedModule 10.0 GW 300mm Turreted Coilgun AmmoBay Capacity 20 Stacks 1 ArmorComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ArmorThickness_m 0.0013
CraftBlueprint Experimental Weapons Platform Modules 10 GW Fusion Battery 1 0 null 0 0 0.1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator 1 0 10 GW Fusion Battery 0 0 Default Remote Control 2 1 5.1226 null 0 0 10.0 GW 300mm Turreted Coilgun 1 6.1777 null 0 0 20x 300mm Coilgun Round 1 5.2166 null 0 0 168 km/s 10.0 GW Neon Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster 2 0.030011 null 0 0 1.000 t Neon Tank 1 -0.5 null 0 0 Armor Shape Hexagonal Concave true ArmorLayers Vanadium Chromium Steel 0.0013 0 0 1 1 0
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Post by AdmiralObvious on Aug 5, 2018 17:35:44 GMT
Results point to yes, after a single shot. I used armor of VCS with thickness of 1.33 m, as to represent approximately 1 ton of VCS for a 10m x 10m plate. I also used a blackbox power generator for the weapons platform, because I did want it to just look like a giant rifle -- and added a turret to it, because game is still terrible at relying on thrusters for aiming. Code for units on test used below. Target: RadiationShieldModule 1.00 m Diameter Lithium-6 Radiation Shield UsesCustomName false Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 0.5 0.01
RadiatorModule 10x2 Calcium Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Calcium PanelWidth_m 0.61 Height_m 2 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Titanium Nitride
CrewModule 10x4 Crew Module (Cheap) UsesCustomName true CrewCapacity 10 Decks 4 StructureMaterial Potassium ShellThickness_m 0.021
RadiatorModule 1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron Nitride PanelWidth_m 0.061 Height_m 0.01 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Titanium Nitride
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule [AE] 10.1 kW Reactor Description Version 1. By Apophys. UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.015 0.026 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Titanium Diboride ModeratorMass_kg 0.03 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 0.1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.0129 ControlRodComposition Titanium Diboride ControlRodMass_kg 0.01 NeutronReflector Tungsten ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.46e+19 InnerTurbopump Composition Boron Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.021 RotationalSpeed_RPM 226 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.03 0.01 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2500 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.01 RotationalSpeed_RPM 230
CraftBlueprint Cube Station Modules 10x4 Crew Module (Cheap) 3 0 null 0 0 [AE] 10.1 kW Reactor 1 -0.5 null 0 0 1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator 4 0.0044793 [AE] 10.1 kW Reactor 0 0 10x2 Calcium Radiator 1 0 10x4 Crew Module (Cheap) 0 0 1.00 m Diameter Lithium-6 Radiation Shield 1 -0.25 null 0 0 Armor Shape Square Concave false ArmorLayers Vanadium Chromium Steel 0.00133 0 0 1 1 0
Weapon: RadiatorModule 0.1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron Nitride PanelWidth_m 0.061 Height_m 0.01 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 2 FrontTaper_radians 0 BackTaper_radians 0 SurfaceFinish Titanium Nitride
PropellantTankModule 1.000 t Neon Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Neon StructureComposition Diamond ReactionMass_kg 1000 HeightToRadiusRatio 0.36 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
BlackBoxPowerModule 10 GW Fusion Battery PowerplantName 10 GW Fusion Battery ModelFileName Dimensions 1 2.5 Mass_kg 7855 PrimaryComposition Ice PowerProduction_W 1.01e+10 Efficiency_Percent 1 Coolant Sodium OutletMassFlow_kg__s 0.001 OutletTemperature_K 2500 RadiationHazard GammaRadiation_W 0 ThermalNeutronRadiation_W 0 FastNeutronRadiation_W 0
CoilgunModule 10.0 GW 300mm Turreted Coilgun UsesCustomName false PowerConsumption_W 1e+10 Coil Composition Titanium WireRadius_m 0.0052 NumberOfTurns 5 NumberOfLayers 1 NumberOfStages 200 BarrelArmor Composition Graphite Aerogel Thickness_m 1.06 Armature Composition Nickel Iron BoreRadius_m 0.15 Mass_kg 173 Tracer Nickel Payload null Loader PowerConsumption_W 36500 ExternalMount false InternalMount false Turret InnerRadius_m 1.75 Extruded true ArmorComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ArmorThickness_m 0.0013 AttachmentCount 1 ElectricActuators PermanentMagnet Neodymium Iron Boron PowerConsumption_W 2.7e+05 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
MagnetoplasmadynamicThrusterModule 168 km/s 10.0 GW Neon Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster UsesCustomName false CathodeRadius_m 0.0178 ChamberThickness_m 0.015 AnodeThickness_m 0.001 ThrusterLength_m 0.112 CathodeComposition Potassium AnodeComposition Depleted Uranium InsulatorComposition Polyethylene Propellant Neon Current_A 2.28e+05 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.07 RotationalSpeed_RPM 20.9 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.1 ArmorComposition Polytetrafluoroethylene ArmorThickness_m 0.005 AttachmentCount 1 MomentumWheels Composition Osmium RotationalSpeed_RPM 44000 GimbalAngle_degrees 90
RemoteControlModule Default Remote Control 2 UsesCustomName true AspectRatio 8 HomingBehavior PropellantForBoostPhase_Percent 0.65 BoostPhase GuidanceLaw AugmentedProportionalNavigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 0.5 MidcoursePhase GuidanceLaw AugmentedProportionalNavigation Accelerate false DampingEngineMultiplier 0.25 TerminalPhase GuidanceLaw AugmentedProportionalNavigation Accelerate true DampingEngineMultiplier 1 IrradianceCutoff_Percent 0.5
AmmoModule 20x 300mm Coilgun Round UsesCustomName false SuppliedModule 10.0 GW 300mm Turreted Coilgun AmmoBay Capacity 20 Stacks 1 ArmorComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel ArmorThickness_m 0.0013
CraftBlueprint Experimental Weapons Platform Modules 10 GW Fusion Battery 1 0 null 0 0 0.1x0.010 Boron Nitride Radiator 1 0 10 GW Fusion Battery 0 0 Default Remote Control 2 1 5.1226 null 0 0 10.0 GW 300mm Turreted Coilgun 1 6.1777 null 0 0 20x 300mm Coilgun Round 1 5.2166 null 0 0 168 km/s 10.0 GW Neon Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster 2 0.030011 null 0 0 1.000 t Neon Tank 1 -0.5 null 0 0 Armor Shape Hexagonal Concave true ArmorLayers Vanadium Chromium Steel 0.0013 0 0 1 1 0
Neat. About what I'd expect. That's also why most mechs have at least 5 tons of armor, unless they're supposed to be glass cannons like some drone mechs. I've always considered huge combat mecha ridiculous, TBH - huge, towering targets full of single points of failure. My favourite thing about Battletech is that you can field an army of tanks instead, and they actually have the relative advantages you'd expect. They also have notable disadvantages too though. Like wheels/tracks being blown off the vehicle, even though the armor is basically unscathed, though with board game rules that only applies to side hits.
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