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Post by someusername6 on Feb 26, 2017 6:50:05 GMT
Here's my own try at "how cheap can we make a crewed warship". This one comes at 2.42 Mc. Now if only my game would run smoothly while I try to completely fill Vesta Overkill's budget with these... For the cheapest possible warship you want to use high efficiency propellant (HD NTR or Resistojet, possibly with a Mercury MPD) or the cheapest propellants available (Neon, Nitrogen, Oxygen). At the power levels available on that ship resistojet and MPD are likely out, but that's a good point on changing the propellant. Edit: that said decane is favored for its energy density. I'd be happy to see examples of similar ships on this price range with at least 5 km/s delta v and a NTR for propulsion.
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Post by randomletters on Feb 26, 2017 7:03:42 GMT
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Post by David367th on Feb 26, 2017 7:09:18 GMT
5 km/s with NTR's? For less than 2 Mc? That's supposed to be hard? They're an older style of ship and long from being optimized with better weapons. Though they have delta-v overhead to improve.
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 26, 2017 7:13:15 GMT
Right, that's a very light armor schema. I suspect my cost will go *up* if I change propellants but not the armor, but I will keep playing with it. Edit: down to under 2 Mc without changing the armor layout. Changes include switching to Methane, just making the NTR plain better so I can use only one, reducing crew size because now there is only one engine, and reducing the overkill on the ammo capacity (still plenty). As a side benefit, it also has way more acceleration now. CrewModule 31 Crew Module Mg UsesCustomName true CrewCapacity 31 Decks 10 StructureMaterial Magnesium ShellThickness_m 0.01
RadioisotopeThermoelectricGeneratorModule 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator UsesCustomName false FuelPellet Fuel Polonium-210 Mass_kg 0.1 Height_m 0.065 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tantalum NTypeComposition Nickel Chromium Iron Length_m 0.004 ExitTemperature_K 330 Coolant Ethane Turbopump Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.01 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1
NuclearThermalRocketModule 6.18 km/s Methane Barge NTR UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreHeight_m 0.22 NuclearReactor Coolant Methane Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 19 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.93 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 23 NeutronReflector Pyrolytic Carbon ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1e+020 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Diamond ThroatRadius_m 0.06 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.014 ChamberContractionRatio 5.2 NozzleExpansionRatio 30 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 8.6 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0 Injector Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.37 RotationalSpeed_RPM 510 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.54 ArmorComposition Pyrolytic Carbon ArmorThickness_m 0.001 MomentumWheels Composition Boron RotationalSpeed_RPM 6000 GimbalAngle_degrees 9
RadiationShieldModule 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield UsesCustomName false Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 2.5 0.004
ExplosiveModule 150 mg 1m Needle UsesCustomName true Length_m 1 ExplosiveMass_kg 0.0001 ExplosiveComposition Nitrocellulose ShrapnelMass_kg 5e-005 ShrapnelComposition Osmium Detonator HardRange_km 0.01 ActivationRange_km 0.4 MinimumRange_km 0 OverrideTimer_s 0 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
CraftBlueprint 150 mg 1m Needle Modules 150 mg 1m Needle 1 0 null 0 Armor
CoilgunModule 100 kW 150 mg 1m Needle Coilgun Be UsesCustomName true PowerConsumption_W 1e+005 Coil Composition Beryllium WireRadius_m 0.021 NumberOfTurns 50 NumberOfLayers 1 NumberOfStages 50 BarrelArmorThickness_m 0 Armature Composition Magnetic Metal Glass BoreRadius_m 0.078 Mass_kg 0.001 Tracer null Payload 150 mg 1m Needle Loader PowerConsumption_W 10 Turret InnerRadius_m 0.78 ArmorComposition Diamond ArmorThickness_m 0.0001 MomentumWheels Composition Lead RotationalSpeed_RPM 25 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
AmmoModule 5000x 150 mg 1m Needle Be UsesCustomName true SuppliedModule 100 kW 150 mg 1m Needle Coilgun Be AmmoBay Capacity 5000 Stacks 10 ArmorComposition Graphite Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.005
PropellantTankModule 170 t Methane Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Methane StructureComposition Boron ReactionMass_kg 1.7e+005 HeightToRadiusRatio 7.5 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CraftBlueprint Barge Needle 2 Modules 31 Crew Module Mg 1 0.91228 null 0 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 16 9.1714 null 0 6x3 Aluminum Radiator 3 29.278 31 Crew Module Mg 0.01 6.18 km/s Methane Barge NTR 1 0 null 0 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield 1 0.43421 null 0 5.00 m x 0 m Spacer 1 41.102 null 0 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield 1 0.67325 null 0 100 kW 150 mg 1m Needle Coilgun Be 1 77.582 null 0 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 16 10.171 null 0 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 16 11.171 null 0 6x5 Aluminum Radiator 3 4.091 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 6x5 Aluminum Radiator 3 9.3258 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 6x5 Aluminum Radiator 3 14.561 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 6x5 Aluminum Radiator 3 19.795 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 6x5 Aluminum Radiator 3 25.03 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 0 1.72 kW Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator 16 12.171 null 0 5000x 150 mg 1m Needle Be 1 26.637 null 0 170 t Methane Tank 1 0 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Boron 0.01 0.23 0 1 1 Graphite Aerogel 0.26 0 0 1 1 Diamond 0.001 0 0 1 1
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Post by bigbombr on Feb 26, 2017 8:42:08 GMT
Crew compartments can also be made of polyethylene. It's very good.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Feb 26, 2017 9:15:46 GMT
If ur using MPD's why is the total Dv so small ? i thought the whole point of MPD's was the propellent exit velocity was extremely high, making the isp very high, although the acceleration is very low I'm using MPDTs to have much smaller tanks than other forms of propulsion would require for a given delta-v budget. These are orbital ships so that requirement is actually only around 5km/s, but it was only a minor concession for them to have a lot more in order to move between asteroids and moons. I think it's a mix of using Argon, which IIRC is dense but has a low exhaust velocity compared to things like Xenon and Neon, and having small propellant tanks to keep mass and external surface area down. That being said, Rocket Witch , can we get the code for any of the unique modules that you're using and the code for those ships? I kind of want to see how they went together, mostly because I tend to not use MPDT propelled ships, so I can learn how to into MPDT usage. Argon is denser than neon and not much more expensive (~850mc versus ~550mc), while xenon is denser and afaik a better propellant than either, but the price is quite high. I originally used mercury but it gets very expensive. Unique? Like what didn't I take from the standards thread? Well that would be everything. I made the crew module max length and sized all the modules to fit inline. Here's the engine and reactor at least. Propellant tanks are 1x100t on the laser and 2x200t on the trawler. They have five engines each but you could probably use a single 50MW one for higher velocity... at which point I could spend the extra delta-v on a bigger reactor for an even more powerful thruster and so on, but I don't want the thrust to be too terrible either, and this reactor is shared by basically all my ships (though I might move up to 300-500MW after the patch). MagnetoplasmadynamicThrusterModule 17km/s 10MW Argon Gimballed MPDT UsesCustomName true CathodeRadius_m 0.001 ChamberThickness_m 0.0144 AnodeThickness_m 0.001 ThrusterLength_m 0.01 CathodeComposition Aluminum Copper Lithium AnodeComposition Aluminum Copper Lithium InsulatorComposition Lithium Propellant Argon Current_A 51000 Injector Composition Polyethylene PumpRadius_m 0.0156 RotationalSpeed_RPM 92.5 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.0231 ArmorComposition Polytetrafluoroethylene ArmorThickness_m 0.0005 MomentumWheels Composition Lithium RotationalSpeed_RPM 22900 GimbalAngle_degrees 45
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 50MW ThermoFission Reactor UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.093 0.093 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 1.5 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 0.9 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 1.05 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.17e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.54 RotationalSpeed_RPM 600 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 2 0.563 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2600 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Polyethylene PumpRadius_m 0.36 RotationalSpeed_RPM 620
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Post by dragonkid11 on Feb 26, 2017 9:20:16 GMT
How did you guys managed to use such tiny vessel?
What did you guys used for crew vessel?
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Post by Rocket Witch on Feb 26, 2017 9:29:30 GMT
How did you guys managed to use such tiny vessel? What did you guys used for crew vessel? I'm using PTFE, the minimum 1cm of which can only just keep the atmosphere out on a long module, but should be a bit more thermally resistive than polyethylene which is the lightest thing you can effectively use. UHMWPE can easily handle the strength requirements of any shape of crew compartment while being very light, and the cost isn't particularly high for the amount required, but is greater than other options. I might go back to it for light crew modules; I haven't shot these things much to find out if the PTFE actually makes a difference. Another thing I might interest you in is this nonporous fiber which I will start using: childrenofadeadearth.boards.net/post/14393/threadYou can keep the headcount and size (and therefore cost and mass) of the crew compartment down by minimising the number of systems (weapons, engines, radiators) and using RTGs instead of reactors.
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Post by David367th on Feb 26, 2017 14:22:43 GMT
How did you guys managed to use such tiny vessel? What did you guys used for crew vessel? A custom 34 crew module. Mines got a bit of boron armor, As 34 appears to be the minimum crew for a ship.
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 26, 2017 14:40:11 GMT
What these guys said, but with Magnesium for the walls to further save up on cost.
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 26, 2017 15:37:07 GMT
I find Boron the cheapest crew-module materiel. Spectra, as expected, is the lightest.
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Post by apophys on Feb 26, 2017 16:31:26 GMT
I find polyethylene and UHMWPE to be lightest, but UHMWPE is too expensive for me. Calcium and magnesium are cheapest. Earlier on, I used boron for its thermal neutron blocking abilities and nice armor value.
Most of the time nowadays I pick polyethylene, because crew modules are really heavy, and I no longer plan to put crewed vessels in combat anyway.
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 26, 2017 17:46:07 GMT
Most of the time nowadays I pick polyethylene, because crew modules are really heavy, and I no longer plan to put crewed vessels in combat anyway. Once human crew requirements drop with more advanced automation, I might revisit armored crew modules again.
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Post by randomletters on Feb 26, 2017 19:42:36 GMT
From what I've seen homogenous single armor layers don't really do well with anything but fragmentation unless they're multiple centimeters thick, which drastically increases weight for crew modules. I've had good luck using thick radiation shields made out of armor materials as bulkheads.
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Hyperant
New Member
Owner of Hyper Productions
Posts: 32
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Post by Hyperant on Feb 27, 2017 0:12:04 GMT
Hm! I had a fairly different approach to a minimalist crewed warships, so I'll post them. These are more about smallest size than cost; I opted for MPDTs. My own micro crewed ship , and with similar cost of yours but without armor. Each carrying 10 k of drones or missiles~ How did you get the ships without the structural trusses and such? I have been trying to get it that way for a while now..
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