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Post by jakjakman on Oct 26, 2016 1:06:39 GMT
Been working on making a capital drone with a Mega-laser and some nuclear micro-missiles to "encourage" tough targets to die faster. (Just don't ever hit the missiles's "launch all" or even "launch 20" with a large fleet of 'em!) It's all custom parts, and the laser only puts out 40MW to save weight and operate at a 1355K outlet temperature. (copper mirrors sacrifice about 5% of output power and let the laser run at 1355K) Wow, cool drones! Could you do a pastebin of our UserDesign.txt file? I'd like to try some of my designs against a strong laser defense.
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Post by jonen on Oct 26, 2016 6:37:06 GMT
I love lasers. I am particularly fond of the idea of the Composite Beam Superlaser (that is to say: Many individually weak, smaller lasers focus fire to OP effect). That said, the forum inspires me to use larger lasers according to the same schema. So I did a thing.Thus. ... I find myself in need of tips for good anti-laser designs that'd survive closing into gun range or delivering a missile warhead even if the ships focus fire, because a pair of these things will annihilate stock fleets in seconds of coming into 250 km range - like if you flicked a lightswitch. Hell, you don't even need to focus fire to melt stock fleets, smart use of focus just makes them go away faster. The biggest weakness in the design so far is that they run themselves out of deltaV right quick if they need to fire thrusters in combat (and all those radiators mean if they need to start turning, they need to burn more or less continuously just to cancel out angular momentum - I could probably do with some more thrusters to help with that, but meh). (Oh, and note the price - these are being worked on for the 100mc fleet challenge. Cheezy Laser Module Sniping.) This thing is incredibly difficult to fight. It outranges pretty much any ship in the game, and the only way I've found to take it down is to completely overwhelm it. You can cheese it by waiting to launch missiles until combat starts, causing the AI to prioritize the missiles as targets. If you send enough missiles, it never even fires on you ships until they get in weapons range. (For reference, in tests with gunships, the lasers took out almost 500 flak missiles.) Another way I tried to take it out was to armor missiles more. Adding a few centimeters of silica aerogel to the Devastator design yields great results until close range, when the added armor doesn't really make a difference. I've also found a strange phenomenon- often, when sending large missile salvos, the ship will struggle to take all of the missiles down- until the last moment. The up-armored Devastators would have worked, with about 200 missiles out of 300 hitting, if the last 200 hadn't all been mysteriously disabled in the seconds before detonation. Most had no actual damage, and hadn't collided with each other either. I'm not sure what happened there... What happened is the Devastators expended all their deltaV accelerating, and the ship just sat there lasing away. Then when they get close, it starts accelerating to dodge, and the missiles discover they're no longer going to hit and don't have the deltaV to correct, and so are disabled. Playing as the lasing ship against AI missiles, if you wait until the relative velocity stops increasing, then start maneuvering, even for a couple of seconds, you eliminate all the missiles.
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Post by argonbalt on Oct 26, 2016 13:16:06 GMT
I was worried for a second there, Jonen has a pretty decent design. But with a little re adjustment, well let's just say, the best thing to fight a laser, is a laser. So naturally i went overboard. LASER CLARINET, MAIN BATTERY FIRE!
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Post by dragonkid11 on Oct 26, 2016 13:40:04 GMT
So...I seem to have a problem using MPD thruster.
I tried to make a dual thrusters design warship that is as cheap as my full NTR warship so I could have the high delta V transit from the MPD thruster and the combat manuerve with NTR truster.
Unfortunately, instead of getting what I expected as 6 extra kilonmeter of delta-V, I got...3 meter of delta-V.
I checked to see if it's power problem, so I turned off all weapons and unnecessary system, but it still remains unchanged.
I have no idea how to solve this, does anyone know how?
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Post by redparadize on Oct 26, 2016 13:50:08 GMT
Yeah, I used them as RCS when I started to play this game. They all started to burn at the same time and emptied my tank in 1 sec. Was fun.
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Post by wafflestoo on Oct 26, 2016 13:54:18 GMT
I've done some experiments with RCS thrusting and the AI seems to go bug-nuts trying to use it So I gave up on it.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Oct 26, 2016 14:18:58 GMT
Huh, guess I have to wait until it's solved.
Though it seems that resistojet is kinda useless when you have gimballed main engine thruster...
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Post by jonen on Oct 26, 2016 14:36:34 GMT
So...I seem to have a problem using MPD thruster. I tried to make a dual thrusters design warship that is as cheap as my full NTR warship so I could have the high delta V transit from the MPD thruster and the combat manuerve with NTR truster. Unfortunately, instead of getting what I expected as 6 extra kilonmeter of delta-V, I got...3 meter of delta-V. I checked to see if it's power problem, so I turned off all weapons and unnecessary system, but it still remains unchanged. I have no idea how to solve this, does anyone know how? Deactivate your NTR, and you should see huge DeltaV (but you don't get much thrust, obviously). If you can get away with low thrust maneuvering, using MPDs to maximize the deltaV out of your tank works. Then when it's time for combat, switch engines and be ready to burn through what little you have left.
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Post by redparadize on Oct 26, 2016 14:55:25 GMT
About RCS, I use NTR, much more efficient. I also deactivate main engine in most combat because I don't want my ship to waist huge amount of fuel just to turn. When I do that RCS work ok.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Oct 26, 2016 14:57:41 GMT
So...I seem to have a problem using MPD thruster. I tried to make a dual thrusters design warship that is as cheap as my full NTR warship so I could have the high delta V transit from the MPD thruster and the combat manuerve with NTR truster. Unfortunately, instead of getting what I expected as 6 extra kilonmeter of delta-V, I got...3 meter of delta-V. I checked to see if it's power problem, so I turned off all weapons and unnecessary system, but it still remains unchanged. I have no idea how to solve this, does anyone know how? Deactivate your NTR, and you should see huge DeltaV (but you don't get much thrust, obviously). If you can get away with low thrust maneuvering, using MPDs to maximize the deltaV out of your tank works. Then when it's time for combat, switch engines and be ready to burn through what little you have left. I tried deactivating everything that isn't the MPD, reactor and crew, still didn't work for some reasons.
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Post by someusername6 on Oct 26, 2016 18:36:37 GMT
This matches my experience. I would like to be able to at least specify whether to use the Methane NTR or the Xenon MPD for a particular thruster burn -- even if it requires going into the tactical view and shutting off one engine or another, which did now show up as an option.
Edit: and then I learn there is an "advanced" button that shows up the engines, which can be turned on and off. Oops. That works then.
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Post by thorneel on Oct 26, 2016 23:09:21 GMT
That's strange, when deactivating Decane resistojets, I got a pretty nice dV from my (non-gimbals) Xenon resistojets. Note that I am using saucers with a cluster of large surface MPDs on one side, partially due to Broadsider being bugged to me and only showing acceleration from one MPD last time I tried. My previous design accidentally used the stock violet laser. For the new one, I finally got full Saucer as I didn't want to bother with half-armour. (Armour itself is still a WIP - it can take a few punches but not that much. It will destroy any stock fleet way before return fire range, though). It is using a cluster of 5 custom max-size Xenon thrusters. Note that the dV calculator here is ignoring Decane, correctly interpreting it as RCS. (though I may put less Decane and more Xenon, as a Xenon mass ratio of 1.64 is relatively low))As you can see, switching between resistojets and MPDs has a pretty big effect on dV (putting both shows slightly more than Decane only: while the ship design recognize Xenon as the main engine, strategic movement does not).
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Post by nerd1000 on Oct 27, 2016 6:48:15 GMT
Out of curiosity, has anyone ever built anything worthwhile out of the 1MW ruby lasers? Every test I've done with them has ended as an utter failure with either the 400kw IR laser or the 13GW YAG laser being superior options. Ruby lasers have inferior pump efficiency and need an enormous lasing rod, which is why they are so rubbish. Better to use Nd:YAG or Ti:Sapphire (frequency doubled of course).
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Post by concretedonkey on Oct 27, 2016 20:10:50 GMT
Brothers and sisters, have you embraced Boron as your Lord and Saviour ? I'd like to present you my failed attempt at making a 100mc fleet for the challenge. It almost got to 100.. frankly if I skimp on the delta V it will probably get there, so all is not lost.. . I'ts also my first fully boronified fleet. Before this I was using it for armor, gun barrels and turret armor. Now there is boron everywhere - it even got UHMWPE out of the tanks - price was too high. So the lady herself : I'm aware that everyone thinks that 3cm of boron is too much, but frankly I was getting good results before with this setup and I'll have to do more tests if I'll choose something else. Ship is a pure carrier with only defensive lasers and guns. Design revolves around redundancy - powerplants at two places - double launchers for every drone type. Only the defensive missile is a single launcher - with intentionally delayed launch each 4 seconds in order not to waste two missiles at each target. Guns and lasers are arranged so there are at least 4 of each pointing at every direction. I would love to be able to angle the turrets a bit forward to cover the front blind spot but for the moment this is not possible. The drones : First the NEFP missle / gun drone Everything is doubled again - 2 powerplants , 2 tanks , ammo is again separated everything is concentrated away from the gun at both extreeme sides of the drone. The main cannon is on the left - fires 100g rounds relatively slowly. Sort of to finish what the missiles started. The other two of the attack ones , N is armed with a NEFP gun , 40 charges and 2x small cannons. The F version's gun fires a small flak missile - role is a pure radiator buster and laser bait. The NEFP gun is used only close or when the target is immobilized. Again 2x20mm small cannons - nothing interesting there, you can see the gun above - next to the 36mm one. Its just very very small. Next the largest and the smallest drone in the inventory : Valkyrie is the last and finally practical version of the large 20mw laser drone that I started a while ago. Main job is to keep away everything from the carrier. Nisse is my new micro drone. Its not fully redundant as the other ones since I wasn't able to build a small enough powerplant for this, so it has only one. Next is the most important drone in the group - the small defensive/escort laser drone. As you may have noticed everything is methane fueled. Funny but I've run a full circle with this. For a while I liked the idea of hydrogen deuteride for the capital ships - loads of delta V. But my drones were always decane fueled - liked the compactness of it. On the other hand I always liked the idea of a unified fuel for everthing. After a bit of wiggling around I finally settled to trying the stock option - methane. Turns out the obvious answer is the right one. Methane gave me the ability to do lighter cheaper drones at the same time the capital ship reached 8.7km/s delta V without any problem. Sure its bigger than the small decane carrier that I tried but almost 9km/s was not a viable option there without unreasonable sacrifices. As you can see on the picture above a slightly bigger methane version of the drone has 0.5MW more power, double powerplants compared to only one for the original. More than 100kg lighter and almost 2k cheaper. Missiles: Left is the NEFP missile for the C version of the Berserker. Right is the micro missile for the F version. The later one has the tendency to miss when launched at a big distance but then again its giving the enemy's lasers something to fire on. The defensive missile for the capital ship : I've seen a very similar role and design by Nivik. This one reliably intercepts missiles and is suprisingly efficient at killing enemy ships as a secondary role, but lacks the aerogel to survive laser fire. At 45c and 14 kg the ship packs easily 2000 of them. So the complement is 150 attack drones - 50 each C F and N. 1000 Nisse micro drones. 200 escort Shieldmaiden IIIs and 20 Valkyries. Usual tactic involves keeping the Valkyries for protection. Shieldmaidens escort the carrier + every attack group. Attack groups usually consist of 5 drones for FPS reasons and the types shift from C and F at the start and N and micro drones at the end when the enemy is not very... lively. Micro drones are very usefull for finishing off separated ships and blocking enemy drone groups. Just keep them away from lasers. If anyone wants more details on anything I'll post additionally , this is way too long already.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Oct 28, 2016 12:14:31 GMT
When designing kinetic kill missile.
Is it better to make the kinetic slug long and thin to penetrate or wide and thick to impact as much surface as possible?
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