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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 11, 2016 1:22:32 GMT
Well I mean the nukes will win. You only need a single multi megaton nuke to take out an entire attack wave of yours. Just one blowing up close in to your fleet will destroy all the drones and missiles and a single multi megaton nuke missile is really cheap. It gets even cheaper if you make it a dedicated CWIS nuke with correspondingly low delta v. So it'll be a lot easier to carry more nukes than it would be to carry more waves of drones. As a side note my silly stupid half a trillion credit ship carries 4,000 10km/s delta v missiles with a 4.5 megaton yeild . Now this ship of mine is stupid huge and I love it but I don't think it'll ever see any real use against foes in it's weight class
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Post by ross128 on Oct 11, 2016 1:46:24 GMT
A single nuke actually usually won't wipe the entire wave if you cancel orders at the beginning of the intercept (unless it's something silly like a gigaton nuke) because the wave will be spread out enough that some will be out of the blast radius. If the enemy was really persistent and reacting to each ordinance type optimally, it would simply drag the fight out and devolve it into using flak missiles to run them out of flares and counter-ordinance first (assuming that they use their flares up before resorting to counter-ordinance against flak missiles alone), then send in the screened drones once they're dry. I can fit 7200 flak missiles in a ship that costs 40Mc, I'm not going to run out of them any time soon.
Though technically if they're out of flares, at that point you can just continue spamming flak until they die without using the drones at all. Or use nuclear missiles. Since the main reason to use the MIRV drones over missiles in the first place is to defeat flares. Though they are slightly better at spreading damage across multiple ships in a fleet, where as standard missiles tend to massively overkill a single target.
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 11, 2016 1:52:29 GMT
Hmm Well I mean if you have flares you can basicly avoid any missile attack with only a few flares if you do it right and if your ship has 100s of flares you just aren't worried about mass flack attacks. You would use the nukes to take out the drone and missile waves as flares are plenty for dealing with flack ammo. Also with a lot of delta v you can get nukes into range of drones in seconds because of the low range that drones have against missiles. Also nuke coil guns are pretty great Another thing to keep in mind is if you focus fire the nuke mirv drones at max range with lasers you can kill them off and then use flares to deal with the missile swarm. But yeah at the end of the day who ever has the more efficient weapon system is going to win an engagement and who ever uses their weapons economically will also come out on top as massed missile attacks and counter missiles and everything else is limited and if you run the enemy out first then you win. So yeah.
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Post by ross128 on Oct 11, 2016 2:08:47 GMT
It seems to me that you just don't like the idea of ordinance being a primary weapon. I addressed the need to run them out of flares first. It'd be a long and boring way to wear them down, but I'm confident that given a vaguely equal cost and weight budget I could bring enough missiles to win by attrition, especially against a ship that focused on direct fire weapons and only brought counter-ordinance as a defensive measure. Technically flak missiles are the only offensive weapon I need, since enough of them will eventually bore through anything in the game (in both meanings of the word "bore" if they're stocked up). The only reason to break out exotic stuff like MIRVs and nuclear EFPs is to speed things along (and because the explosions look cool).
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 11, 2016 2:48:40 GMT
Oh heck no! Missiles rule! I just like my fleets to be able to close the range and engage with other weapons! I have so many diffrent missiles and warheads it's funny and a major part of my fleet is going to be made up of missile and drone ships as they are just so incredibly effective. But I really like nuke coil guns Plus nuke coil guns are effective at as long a range as you can get the enemy into a battle. You just need to get the warheads close to the enemy and if the game had a command to saturate the whole area of the enemy fleet they couldn't even dodge Too many nukes in too many places. Also why on earth did I make a 2 ton flack war head!? Having more than one of those going off just pauses the game and my ships can launch waves of 100s of them... God the lag!
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Post by redparadize on Oct 11, 2016 2:58:29 GMT
That problem can be completely avoided with cheap gun drones. One of my ship have 120 of them. They are lightweight and dead cheap. you will run out of megation nuke way before I run out of them. And and a squad of 5 of them can cut trough about anything.
By the way, for half a trilon credit, it is 10000 these drones plus the ship that carry them!
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 11, 2016 3:10:18 GMT
Hmm well I mean drones just seem to be horrifically vulnerable to lasers. Almost no matter what. I've tried to armor them but I have not had any luck. Have you?
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Post by concretedonkey on Oct 11, 2016 4:13:57 GMT
You don't need to armor them perfectly , just well enough for them to deploy the ordinance , whatever it is. After that the enemy switches to firing on the ordinance. I'm not sure if I was in control of the AI fleet I would do it differently since a single nuke usually overheats your radiators and your lasers stop. My attack waves usually consist of a single nuke drone , 5 kinetic ones and 5 escorts. Keep in mind that I have restricted the rate of fire for the missile/guns specifically not to kill the frame rate , otherwise they can pump ordinance quite fast , with 1.6 km/s then the missile which is around 2km/s with 18 G. More performance is possible of course this is no way a top tier system its made to be cheap , light and disposable. Gun is 600-800 kg depending on the ordinance and the missile is around 14-16kg. If point defence is good enough then just keep pumping more drones or soften the target with long range missile fire.
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Post by redparadize on Oct 11, 2016 4:23:50 GMT
Hmm well I mean drones just seem to be horrifically vulnerable to lasers. Almost no matter what. I've tried to armor them but I have not had any luck. Have you? Try silica Aerogel, its perfect agaist Laser. In fact its only good agaist laser... Well, the laser will eventualy get them... but not before they have emptied half their clip, and thats more than enough to kill anything that I have designed so far. Just to add a layer of protection, I have a missiles drone that carry 20x 20kg KKV to escort them. These missiles usualy get shot at first, they have 12 cm of Silica "radiation" shield on the front. I tested that tactic agaist fleets of 12 Laser Fregate. 1 missile and 5 gunner drones voley. I usualy kill most of them on the first pass, spreading the damage evenly is its tricky, I sometimes get all of them trough. Agaist a single target that's not be a problem, I tested it on a resonably armored and super sloped test ship of my design. It doesn't have front weapon so no weakness there, 2-5 seconds of bullets was enough, then the KKV hit and go trough front to back, don't forget that a each of these drones also finish their career as KKV. Each of my TunderBolt III drones have 4 of these:
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Post by Durandal on Oct 11, 2016 7:54:19 GMT
Guys, it's like 4 in the freaking morning here, but I found a thing. Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but has anyone tried...I think it's borosilicate glass, as a forcer in a luncher? It must be another bug, because by lowering power input as low as possible I'm launching missiles (well, payloads) at speeds of up to 10+ km/s. At high power input it can go up to hundreds of km/s, but it's FAR to fast to be usable.
Too late to post the design, but I've got a ship with forward mounted launchers that fires 106kt osmium-cased warheads at 7 km/s. It costs 25 kW. Granted, it behaves like a spinal mount, but it's the effect of a supergun-type weapon for the price of nothing. Unless it's an already discovered bug I'll post designs tomorrow.
*edit* Units may be off, but like I said I'll post designs tomorrow. I've spent waaaay longer than I meant to messing around with this.
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Post by argonbalt on Oct 11, 2016 8:10:33 GMT
So uh, i can explain, i, well you see, i wanted to make a light anti-drone laser-drone, right, well anyway after scrambling the right parts together i came up with this pretty little thing: And i was like, hey alright, that's not to shabby. But then i couldn't help but notice, man i got all these light reactors, they are a little hot sure, but they cool, and i got all these tiny lasers right, i mean heck this reactor is good enough to mount on half my ships! forget about drones! And this laser so light you could practically juggle it! so anyways after a little while i ended up with this monster. I have an alternate model, but FUCK! i mean these 20 mw lasers are light, tight and outa sight!(actually only around 10sh tons) and most importantly it looks cool! any one thing lead to another so basically... So this is laser power,...not bad...
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Post by elouda on Oct 11, 2016 9:47:11 GMT
I've settled on using the same kind of 'double broadside' arrays myself recently, seems to work out better than massive frontal laser arrays.
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Post by nivik on Oct 11, 2016 12:56:54 GMT
And all put together like so: <image of 15 kc flak missile>And if you thought that missile had a crazy amount of delta V here is the Micro nuke! Same engine same set up but with 3 times as much fuel: <image of 5.75 Mc nuclear missile>Also just tested the biggest aperture 1GW laser possible. It is less effective than 10 100MW lasers . By a rather large margin. So it definitely seems loads of small lasers is the way to go. Your ordinance is awesome, but expensive. My navy would never kill one of your ships; they'd be trying to figure out how to board it and steal your missiles instead.
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 11, 2016 14:00:33 GMT
And all put together like so: <image of 15 kc flak missile>And if you thought that missile had a crazy amount of delta V here is the Micro nuke! Same engine same set up but with 3 times as much fuel: <image of 5.75 Mc nuclear missile>Also just tested the biggest aperture 1GW laser possible. It is less effective than 10 100MW lasers . By a rather large margin. So it definitely seems loads of small lasers is the way to go. Your ordinance is awesome, but expensive. My navy would never kill one of your ships; they'd be trying to figure out how to board it and steal your missiles instead. Yeah the cost is an issue . I have made the nuke warhead a LOT cheaper so the micro nuke is now far more affordable and I could fiddle with the nuclear engine for both of the missiles in order to get them to be a bit cheaper as well. I just haven't gotten around to it. So be it the change of the nuke warhead to a 6.something megaton nuke saved a HUGE amount of money as it now uses a diffrent fissile material. So the newer higher yeild nuke now only cost 30ish kc!
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Post by jakjakman on Oct 11, 2016 14:17:55 GMT
So uh, i can explain, i, well you see, i wanted to make a light anti-drone laser-drone, right, well anyway after scrambling the right parts together i came up with this pretty little thing: And i was like, hey alright, that's not to shabby. But then i couldn't help but notice, man i got all these light reactors, they are a little hot sure, but they cool, and i got all these tiny lasers right, i mean heck this reactor is good enough to mount on half my ships! forget about drones! And this laser so light you could practically juggle it! so anyways after a little while i ended up with this monster. I have an alternate model, but FUCK! i mean these 20 mw lasers are light, tight and outa sight!(actually only around 10sh tons) and most importantly it looks cool! any one thing lead to another so basically... So this is laser power,...not bad... Cool! I'm doubling up on some of my lasers because it seems like that's the first thing that ends up getting targeted by the enemy. What do your radiators look like for those multi-laser ships?
PS, nice reference to the Ohm, it does look like that, haha
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