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Post by apophys on Nov 4, 2016 9:33:34 GMT
It probably will, yeah. But if a fleet can survive all the lasers and close the range enough to blast it away, I'd like to see it (eventually I will update with defensive timed flak to counter missile spam).
The laser fleet should be easy to put the AI in control of, since all it has to do is sit there and burn everything that comes within 250km (and if engagement ranges get increased, it will be significantly harder to break).
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Post by apophys on Nov 4, 2016 7:40:15 GMT
I think the laser ships above can be slightly improved if you use mercury for propulsion. Mercury is much much more expensive than decane. The fuel density mass savings are small and aren't worth the cost. Thrust and exhaust velocity are similar, and I could probably get them identical if I fiddle with my MPD. Edit: Indeed I can. At high power like this, a good MPD fuel is defined exclusively by its density and cost, because thrust characteristics can be made identical depending on the balance of the MPD. Mercury is the best where cost is unlimited. In a cost-limited format, things like carbon dioxide become much more interesting. I used decane, because I use decane everywhere and it's compatible with tankers I may build. Very nice, but unless I'm misunderstanding the way power works wouldn't you need a 10gw reactor for each thruster? There is only one 10GW main thruster on the ship, only used for orbital maneuvers out of combat. The combat thrusters are 9x 100MW, so they can fire along with the 9x 1GW lasers in combat, to orient the ship ("broadside," which here means pointing forward). The ship has one 10GW reactor.
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Post by apophys on Nov 4, 2016 6:24:51 GMT
With reactor temp at 2500K (standard for me) and laser temp at 1234K (barely below silver's melting point), laser radiators take up about twice the space of reactor radiators (with reactors powering almost nothing else).
Combined radiators are the #1 element in my MPD laser ship in terms of both mass and cost, even though the radiators have minimum thickness and are made of light, cheap materials. So radiator temperature is a big deal if you're focusing on lasers.
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Post by apophys on Nov 4, 2016 1:46:19 GMT
I'm not sure how you consider that evidence for limited range (other than its obvious non-infinite value). It just shows that it has sufficient focus to snipe small things at long distances. Even at 2500 km, the focal area will be smaller than a square meter, and that's good enough to still burn through things.
2.4 GW of lasing power can overwhelm enemy radiators (or start warming hull material for easier subsequent drilling), even if the focal area is large, so it remains relevant at much longer ranges (since radiators are big).
The only price I see that I am paying is the inability to use flares to dodge missiles. This will be less of a concern with implementation of the defensive flak I linked. Otherwise, the fleet is rather cheap and light.
Please, test its effectiveness by giving the fleet to the AI (possibly removing the main MPD to keep the AI from doing dumb things in combat). Theorycrafting can only go so far.
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Post by apophys on Nov 3, 2016 14:47:42 GMT
Power requirements are not an issue due to wonderfully efficient reactors. When you can build a fleet for 100 Mc that collectively pumps 54 GW of power into superlasers ( link), you cannot simply dismiss its lethality. You'll need quite thick silica aerogel on everything to close the range, and radiators can be sniped regardless. Missiles are less of a concern now that timed flak has been created. ( link)
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Post by apophys on Nov 3, 2016 14:22:32 GMT
I haven't built many ships yet; mostly I've been playing with the modules. Still, I'm of the same mind as waffles. I'll add something to a specialist ship to cover its weaknesses, but not everything and the kitchen sink.
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Post by apophys on Nov 3, 2016 12:28:48 GMT
1. HD and any type of water are horrible coolants. That is your main problem, because it forces you to greatly oversize your thermocouple and pumps. For the outer coolant use sodium, and for the inner coolant you can pick sodium or ethane (for 100 MW I'd use sodium; if you pick it, you may need some moderator).
2. RE: inner turbo - Amorphous carbon is lighter than diamond, and it can still take that kind of stress.
3. If your reactor is shielded, making the core bigger than it needs to be adds unnecessary mass.
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Post by apophys on Nov 3, 2016 2:49:11 GMT
Hmm, what about putting timed flak cannons on a drone flying at high speed toward an enemy, firing a few shots and then trying to impact as a KKV?
That would be quite a large cloud of hypervelocity debris, and such a cloud couldn't be stopped once it's been launched.
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 23:57:35 GMT
I don't really get the reasoning for using cold reactors. For example, a similar reactor at 2500K can be built (with about half the size): Attachment DeletedSure, your reactor can make use of lithium radiators, which are 1/4 the weight of amorphous carbon. However, mine requires 1760 times less radiator surface area than yours, because hot radiators are far, far more effective than cold ones (see earlier in the thread for more on the topic). Yes, my reactor is completely unshielded, but that's irrelevant, because you probably won't be putting something of this low power level on a crewed ship anyway. And lithium-6 radiation shields exist, along with boron crew modules. Code: ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 101 kW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.1 0.1 NuclearReactor Coolant Ethane Moderator Boron Nitride ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.0072 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 1 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 2.9e+019 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.06 RotationalSpeed_RPM 300 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.1 0.1 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tungsten NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2500 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.01 RotationalSpeed_RPM 64
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 21:02:11 GMT
In any case, the main reason I came to this thread is to ask the following: Are there any wavelengths that are particularly common, useful, or powerful? I ask because if there were, then it would be interesting to implement metamaterial cloaking as a counter; because they currently exist, but can only really affect a handful of wavelengths at the same time; not all wavelengths at once (full true invisibility). With the materials available, the only 2 wavelengths that are significantly used are frequency-doubled Nd:YAG + krypton (green, 532 mm) and frequency-doubled Ti:Sapphire + xenon (purple, 395 mm). That's because the power efficiency for those combos is higher than anything else by a fair margin. Frequency doubling is basically always used, for a much better intensity with no serious downsides. You could try aluminum for purple and silver for green, because that's the material they use for their focusing mirrors. Also both materials reflect the other color decently. The trade-off between the two is that purple gets better intensity, but less raw power. Purple gets more efficient at low power levels, but still not more than green.
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 20:48:40 GMT
(allows less depleted uranium mass to be used; which seems to be a legit low temp fuel after all) That has got to be a bug. Changing the enrichment percent for depleted uranium changes the power output, but does absolutely nothing to the mass and cost. (what's being enriched here?) Moreover, using depleted uranium dioxide gives no power at any enrichment level, which I suspect is the correct behavior. U-233 dioxide is the cheapest legit fuel I see. I'm slowly converting all my reactors to it for cost savings. For small reactors, I turn down the enrichment as far as I can, to get even more cost savings.
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 10:19:44 GMT
That defensive flak is excellent, and it would pair up very well with gigawatt-array laser fleets.
If every ship in the fleet has it, on a 90 degree gimbal, then friendly fire should be avoided by shooting everything down before the angle becomes an issue.
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 9:32:23 GMT
The 400x20 radiators emit 2 GW of heat each at 1234K, which will fully cool 2 lasers at a time. So, ignoring inter-reflection, 3 radiators will only successfully cool 6/9 (in the editor, the game seems to only count one of those lasers for the cooling required). 6 radiators would cover 12 lasers without inter-reflection, so my redundancy is not really that far out. Not sure how much it matters, but check the output power - if there is one place where Green is Superior to Purple (heh) it is with efficiency. ^this. Also, high power levels are more detrimental to the efficiency of purple rather than to green (if you play with power input, you'll see the green graph sway to show the spectra changes).
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 1:22:06 GMT
What lawson means here is using this gun to increase engagement range beyond 250km, and using lasers as the main weapon, by ignoring their inbuilt range limit.
In such a case, damage, fire rate, and power draw on the gun is irrelevant, only range, mass, and cost.
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Post by apophys on Nov 2, 2016 0:13:08 GMT
Let's give that thrown gauntlet more thorns. Fleet: 6x Laser Frigate II Less total mass, more dV, more acceleration, more combined firepower, smaller cross-section, faster turnabout, has a little aerogel main armor, and can turn while in combat. Both types of main radiators are ~20% oversized for redundancy, since they are the most vulnerable parts. Tactics: same as above. With a silly 18.8 km/s dV, you can take the time to set yourself some nice, slow intercepts. And you can reach across the solar system. Turn off the main MPD while in combat (to keep the ship AI from possibly blowing your power on it). Turn off maneuvering MPDs outside of combat if you want to save dV. Mass ratio is insanely low at 1.28 Parts & codes: 6x Laser Frigate II (a highly unoriginal name, I know) CraftBlueprint Laser Frigate II Modules 10.0 t Decane Tank 19 4.603 null 0 75.7 km/s 10.0 GW Decane Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster 1 0 null 0 10.1 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 10.206 null 0 1.000 GW Nd:YAG Green Laser 9 90.205 null 0 45 Crew Module 2 1 0 null 0 400x20 Amorphous Carbon Radiator 3 47.717 10.1 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 400x20 Boron Radiator 3 27.297 1.000 GW Nd:YAG Green Laser 0 400x20 Boron Radiator 3 67.975 1.000 GW Nd:YAG Green Laser 0 6x5 Aluminum Radiator 3 14.792 45 Crew Module 2 0 17.6 km/s 100 MW Decane Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster 9 79.631 null 0.39 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield 1 2.3015 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Silica Aerogel 0.018 0 0 1 1
9x 1GW green laser (A vastly lightened version of my old one, because of aerogel. Also thinned the hydrogen tube.) LaserModule 1.000 GW Nd:YAG Green Laser ArcLamp GasComposition Krypton EnvelopeComposition Fused Quartz PowerSupplied_W 1e+009 Radius_m 0.01 CavityWallComposition Silver CavityCoolantComposition Hydrogen CavitySemimajorAxis_m 0.7 CavitySemiminorAxis_m 0.69 GainMedium Nd:YAG OpticalNodes 10000000 LasingRodRadius_m 0.014 Mirror Composition Silver OutputCoupler Composition Fused Quartz CoolantTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.9 RotationalSpeed_RPM 460 CoolantInletTemperature_K 1200 FrequencyDoubler NonlinearOptic Composition Silver Gallium Selenide OpticLength_m 0.026 OpticRadius_m 0.025 ApertureRadius_m 2.4 FocusingMirror Composition Silver Turret InnerRadius_m 5.1 ArmorComposition Silica Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.06 ReactionWheels Composition Polyethylene RotationalSpeed_RPM 87 EngagementRange_km 250 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
6x 400x20 boron radiator (cheaper and stronger than amorphous carbon) RadiatorModule 400x20 Boron Radiator Composition Boron PanelWidth_m 20 Height_m 20 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 SurfaceFinish Diamond
1x 10.1GW reactor (somewhat cheaper and slightly heavier than the one in the reactor thread) ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 10.1 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.3 0.1 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 121 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.97 ControlRodComposition U-233 Dioxide ControlRodMass_kg 172 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0.6 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 2e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 2.3 RotationalSpeed_RPM 480 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 13 28 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tungsten NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2500 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 1 RotationalSpeed_RPM 670
3x 400x20 amorphous carbon radiator RadiatorModule 400x20 Amorphous Carbon Radiator Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 20 Height_m 20 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 SurfaceFinish Diamond
19x 10t decane tank (UHMWPE of course) PropellantTankModule 10.0 t Decane Tank Propellant Decane StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 10000 HeightToRadiusRatio 13 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
1x 5m diameter 4mm thick lithium-6 rad shield (not really needed, but it's so cheap!) RadiationShieldModule 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 2.5 0.004
1x 45 crew module (boron) CrewModule 45 Crew Module 2 CrewCapacity 45 Decks 15 StructureMaterial Boron ShellThickness_m 0.01
3x 6x5 aluminum radiator (stock; good enough) 9x 100MW decane MPD (maneuvering thrust; arranged around the front) MagnetoplasmadynamicThrusterModule 17.6 km/s 100 MW Decane Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster CathodeRadius_m 0.0042 ChamberThickness_m 0.045 AnodeThickness_m 0.001 ThrusterLength_m 0.01 CathodeComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel AnodeComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel InsulatorComposition Polyethylene Propellant Decane Current_A 76000 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.032 RotationalSpeed_RPM 310 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.047 ArmorComposition Silica Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.04 ReactionWheels Composition Polyethylene RotationalSpeed_RPM 23000 GimbalAngle_degrees 90
1x 10GW decane MPD (main engine) MagnetoplasmadynamicThrusterModule 75.7 km/s 10.0 GW Decane Gimballed Magnetoplasmadynamic Thruster CathodeRadius_m 0.0035 ChamberThickness_m 0.087 AnodeThickness_m 0.001 ThrusterLength_m 0.01 CathodeComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel AnodeComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel InsulatorComposition Polyethylene Propellant Decane Current_A 3e+005 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.045 RotationalSpeed_RPM 640 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.065 ArmorComposition Silica Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.05 ReactionWheels Composition Polyethylene RotationalSpeed_RPM 39000 GimbalAngle_degrees 90
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