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Post by RiftandRend on Feb 7, 2017 20:17:53 GMT
I would not want to be a civilian trader in CoaDE. Cheap micro drones (200 cr) operating out of an MPDT/NTR carrier could easily destroy entire convoys with relative ease, necessitating escorts. I propose that any civilian shipping would travel together in large groups so that the fewest amount of escort ships would be needed for their defense.
TL:DR Civilian ships should travel in groups with laser armed escorts.
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 7, 2017 20:24:08 GMT
Problem then is an missile carrier or just a single missile pod can overwhelm the entire laser force. Pretty soon we're talking entire battlefleets...
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Post by RiftandRend on Feb 7, 2017 20:29:26 GMT
That might be an issue. Maybe the escorts could launch nuclear anti-missiles to disperse the swarm and use their lasers to destroy the stragglers and they arrive?
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Post by darkwarriorj on Feb 7, 2017 20:35:40 GMT
Assuming the traders use an MPD drive, which necessitate a fairly strong nuclear reactor, I can see them becoming the escorts themselves - by buying and adding a laser to their merchant ship, making use of that spare reactor power. In fact, since there is this synergy between trade ships and both laser (MPD drives necessitate high reactor outputs anyways) and kinetic (MPD drives allow one to accelerate a lot of mass to really high speeds) combat modes, the combatants themselves may very well be rival merchant trade federations, seeking a monopoly over the solar system... This may result in a fairly militarized society, where the distinction between civilian and military is fairly thin....
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Post by bdcarrillo on Feb 8, 2017 15:38:45 GMT
I'd also point out that some form of laser system would probably already be mounted on the nose of merchant vessels, to handle anything larger than dust. Any orbit in a busy neighborhood (near planetary rings, geologically active moons etc) would likely warrant such a system. Heck, look at all the junk in orbit of Earth! Surely, we can imply that higher levels of space programs would leave additional debris, with only major trade routes being kept clear.
From there it's a fairly easy, logical step to a full, "military" power laser.
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Post by Easy on Feb 8, 2017 16:22:04 GMT
Why are you attacking civilian shipping? What did they do to you? They're just trying to make a living.
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Post by lawson on Feb 8, 2017 17:15:39 GMT
I would not want to be a civilian trader in CoaDE. Cheap micro drones (200 cr) operating out of an MPDT/NTR carrier could easily destroy entire convoys with relative ease, necessitating escorts. I propose that any civilian shipping would travel together in large groups so that the fewest amount of escort ships would be needed for their defense. TL:DR Civilian ships should travel in groups with laser armed escorts. Alternatively, shippers could buy insurance from the laser broom operators. Any laser that can vaporize bolts in high orbit is going to be dangerous at interplanetary distances, especially if lots of sites gang up on the pirates. (worst case, they just slow roast them...) Note: the civilian shippers will also probably be operators of laser brooms because of the synergy between large lasers, large telescopes, and high Delta-V MPD drives. |
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Post by Hicks on Feb 8, 2017 17:28:43 GMT
Why are you attacking civilian shipping? What did they do to you? They're just trying to make a living. That is like the entire point of On the Surface of Giants. You nuke a defenseless civillian fuel refinery in extreamly low orbit. I mean, I didn't: I used a big ass laser to snipe of the crew pod's radiator at 900km, but the mission as designed has you command a mercenary fleet to nuke an unarmed station. |
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Post by shiolle on Feb 8, 2017 17:31:25 GMT
Alternatively, shippers could buy insurance from the laser broom operators. Any laser that can vaporize bolts in high orbit is going to be dangerous at interplanetary distances, especially if lots of sites gang up on the pirates. (worst case, they just slow roast them...) Note: the civilian shippers will also probably be operators of laser brooms because of the synergy between large lasers, large telescopes, and high Delta-V MPD drives. I think that anything that is dangerous at interplanetary distances is going to be operated by the military, but aren't even TW lasers are nothing but flashlights at even 'meager' hundred thousand kilometers? And what kind of threats are we talking about? If it's the time of war, the escort should will be provided by the military; if you imply some kind of piracy then, well, in this setting if there are pirates they are likely controlled by one of the factions. |
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Post by RiftandRend on Feb 8, 2017 19:19:58 GMT
Alternatively, shippers could buy insurance from the laser broom operators. Any laser that can vaporize bolts in high orbit is going to be dangerous at interplanetary distances, especially if lots of sites gang up on the pirates. (worst case, they just slow roast them...) Note: the civilian shippers will also probably be operators of laser brooms because of the synergy between large lasers, large telescopes, and high Delta-V MPD drives. I think that anything that is dangerous at interplanetary distances is going to be operated by the military, but aren't even TW lasers are nothing but flashlights at even 'meager' hundred thousand kilometers? We have 10 Gw lasers that can kill ships at that range. A Tw military laser instillation might have Km sized apertures. |
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Post by shiolle on Feb 8, 2017 20:29:54 GMT
We have 10 Gw lasers that can kill ships at that range. A Tw military laser instillation might have Km sized apertures. Can I ask you what intensity and spot diameter do these lasers have at 100 000 km and how did you calculate it? |
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Post by Enderminion on Feb 8, 2017 21:06:52 GMT
The max pratical range for a laser is about ~30 Light seconds because travel time is too long for good targeting beyound that range
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Post by shiolle on Feb 8, 2017 22:02:46 GMT
The max pratical range for a laser is about ~30 Light seconds because travel time is too long for good targeting beyound that range As QSwitch tells in his blog post, this is not what limits lasers generally. Your best possible M^2 in the game is 3 and even if it was 1, the beam would still defocus due to diffraction long before that. That is before we even get into sensor resolution and the ability of the craft to spin and make random maneuvers which at that range will at least make the beam wander along the hull or at most wander around the craft occasionally crossing its hull. At 30 light seconds the target will have 1 minute to introduce any random perturbations into its trajectory. The most wildly optimistic figure I've seen before was one light second. P.S. Actually when I read this blog again just now, I found an interesting passage there: "Thermal lensing increases M^2 roughly linearly with input power. This means if you have 1 kW laser with a M^2 of 1.5 (which is reasonable), this means dumping 1 MW into that same laser will yield a M^2 of about 1500 (going the other way does not work, since M^2 can’t be less than 1)." I tried this with various lasers in the game, and apparently it is not the case right now. |
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Post by Easy on Feb 8, 2017 23:28:53 GMT
In the event of a CoDE major war with shipping interdiction you've got a conundrum.
Mounting a low power drone or missile system in place of a cargo container might be the more effective method, but it also necessitates crew to pilot the drones and operate whatever fire control radars/lidars/optical sensors.
Of course now your civilian transport is no longer civilian.
High power lasers with the reactor and radiators are less trivial. But I suppose you could fit it into a series of cargo containers like everything else.
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Post by Easy on Feb 8, 2017 23:36:41 GMT
The alternative method is you huck dumb unguided cargo that has to be caught on the other end. The receiver has to dock with the cargo in hyperbolic orbit and then do the burns to bring the cargo to whatever orbit is required.
Unguided and unchaperoned cargo works in peacetime too. But what are you going to do unless you build an entirely new cargo fleet?
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