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Post by ross128 on Nov 14, 2016 13:41:35 GMT
It's also important to note that this was the same patch that increased laser range to 1Mm (1000km). Under the old homing algorithms, no reasonably sized missile could cross an engagement range that large and still have enough fuel left to hit. Now, as long as your acceleration is low enough to allow engine cutoff, we can actually define homing patterns that can cross that gap. If we had been left with the old homimg algorithms, a 1kW laser with its engagement range set to 1Mm would have provided practical immunity to missiles.
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Post by redparadize on Nov 14, 2016 14:15:30 GMT
It's also important to note that this was the same patch that increased laser range to 1Mm (1000km). Under the old homing algorithms, no reasonably sized missile could cross an engagement range that large and still have enough fuel left to hit. Now, as long as your acceleration is low enough to allow engine cutoff, we can actually define homing patterns that can cross that gap. If we had been left with the old homimg algorithms, a 1kW laser with its engagement range set to 1Mm would have provided practical immunity to missiles. Yeah, I did a resonably well defended small missile. Its launched at a rate of 4 per second, at 100km and I could get about 30 hits on 100 missiles against the 8 stock laser ship. I think I will have to revise my strategy.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 14, 2016 14:22:51 GMT
I just send out my stupid tough multi-guns drone to tank the laser out as frankly I'm too stupid to program my missile properly.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Nov 14, 2016 14:45:08 GMT
Issues noted so far:
- guidance strategies seem to fail to compensate for the lateral velocity imparted by the launcher (verified with side vs nose mounted launchers)
- the underlying hard-coded assumption is that the terminal stage will make any required corrections, and will expend all remaining delta-v on acceleration. I feel that this approach is fundamentally flawed
- there's an unknown hard-coded precision for guidance, or allowable error (launch a missile with unguided mid/terminal)
- mid course corrections do not occur unless you accelerate during that phase
- a low impulse engine that allows an acceleration burn all the way to target is very accurate, but not viable for combat
Stuff that might fix these issues: - ability to set allowable error at each phase with hysteresis to reduce wiggles - max throttle and percent delta-v per phase - set a distance to enter terminal guidance, rather than computing one
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Post by redparadize on Nov 14, 2016 15:04:17 GMT
I just send out my stupid tough multi-guns drone to tank the laser out as frankly I'm too stupid to program my missile properly. My missile guidance work fairly well. I will post them tonight. I think it have more to do with the missile than the guidance. I still didn't got how to have the mid course working...
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Post by ross128 on Nov 14, 2016 15:21:28 GMT
My current strategy is to have a short boost (mostly to get them pointed in roughly the right direction), a completely unpowered mid-course coast to conserve fuel, and then a long terminal burn to actually put the missile on target.
It gives the missiles quite a long reach, though the short boost phase means that the missiles have a long, slow coast phase that is vulnerable to long-range lasers. I'm probably going to experiment with increasing the boost phase as much as I can, while still leaving enough fuel in the terminal phase that it can shake out all the error introduced in the first two stages.
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Post by lieste on Nov 14, 2016 17:13:08 GMT
Vessels in general including missiles might benefit from staging to increase delta-v and acceleration from smaller, lighter final stages.
Compare RIM67 or RIM156A and RIM66, which are similar terminal packages with and without a boost phase. Most other high performance SAMs are also two stage, often with 2 or three levels of boost/coast or sustain/boost in their solid propellant motor for the upper stage.
A small manned capital vessel could also be given superior delta-v while retaining high performance main engines and no added weight and bulk for back up systems of higher efficiency by staging on, rather than being deployed with 'tanker' or support vessels.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Nov 14, 2016 18:27:47 GMT
Vessels in general including missiles might benefit from staging to increase delta-v and acceleration from smaller, lighter final stages. Compare RIM67 or RIM156A and RIM66, which are similar terminal packages with and without a boost phase. Most other high performance SAMs are also two stage, often with 2 or three levels of boost/coast or sustain/boost in their solid propellant motor for the upper stage. A small manned capital vessel could also be given superior delta-v while retaining high performance main engines and no added weight and bulk for back up systems of higher efficiency by staging on, rather than being deployed with 'tanker' or support vessels. I made a similar observation here: childrenofadeadearth.boards.net/thread/440/request-batteries-stagingDidn't seem to draw much traction/attention
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Post by Durandal on Nov 14, 2016 19:26:27 GMT
My current strategy is to have a short boost (mostly to get them pointed in roughly the right direction), a completely unpowered mid-course coast to conserve fuel, and then a long terminal burn to actually put the missile on target. It gives the missiles quite a long reach, though the short boost phase means that the missiles have a long, slow coast phase that is vulnerable to long-range lasers. I'm probably going to experiment with increasing the boost phase as much as I can, while still leaving enough fuel in the terminal phase that it can shake out all the error introduced in the first two stages. I've gone with an opposite strategy. High boost phase (70-80% Dv) to close the gap quickly with a short terminal phase that uses Deviated Pursuit factored in at 0.2. I'm still tweaking my missiles, but I'm getting near-hits on terminal but frequent Dv depletion.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 16, 2016 14:10:28 GMT
Okay so erm.
Does anyone have actual good control module setting for EFP missile of any kind?
I tried to turn off acceleration, but the missile just miss eventhough they are straight.
I tried to change the guidance law to propotional navigation but then the missile fumbled.
It seems that the current control module scheme is just not made for EFP.
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Post by ross128 on Nov 16, 2016 14:16:46 GMT
Are you trying to make stand-off EFPs? Because for (near) impact detonation you can just use the same pattern you'd use for a KKV or Flak missile.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Nov 16, 2016 15:00:41 GMT
Okay so erm. Does anyone have actual good control module setting for EFP missile of any kind? I tried to turn off acceleration, but the missile just miss eventhough they are straight. I tried to change the guidance law to propotional navigation but then the missile fumbled. It seems that the current control module scheme is just not made for EFP. You'll want pure pursuit. Your effectiveness at long range will be at the mercy of the hardcoded threshold. I finally had some good luck with a swarm micromissile designed to burn from launch to impact. It works well at 100km tactical engagements. They were effective as a KKV but I threw in a 200g flak charge to keep them all from plowing through the same hole. For longer range engagements I put a 20 rack of them on a stinger drone. I'll have to post some pics later. 150 missiles, one entry hole at ~100km (static target, 10cm aluminum). Bursting charge removed for demonstration purposes. Missile and control settings Engine. It deliberately burns slowly, but a fast version with 2x the fuel flow is possible These things are fairly resilient to stock laser boats, haul butt to 100km, and nail moving targets pretty darn well. Now, if I could spread out a swarm of 200 to multiple enemies at once they'd be much more effective.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 19, 2016 1:45:58 GMT
Finally got the EFP to work perfectly!!!
Turns out, you don't need pure pursuit or modifying the missile control module much.
You just need to add a layer of fragment to the explosive, since for some damn reasons, the missile will get deleted whole upon exploding, including the projectile.
Now everything works perfectly fine.
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Post by Durandal on Nov 19, 2016 1:55:38 GMT
Finally got the EFP to work perfectly!!! Turns out, you don't need pure pursuit or modifying the missile control module much. You just need to add a layer of fragment to the explosive, since for some damn reasons, the missile will get deleted whole upon exploding, including the projectile. Now everything works perfectly fine. So...basically a flak missile?
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Post by bdcarrillo on Nov 19, 2016 1:58:17 GMT
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