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Post by deltav on Jan 13, 2017 3:32:48 GMT
AI vs AI Stock Ships Battle Ranking! Edit: Ever since the update (1.10) the matchups are completely different. The new head to head is here... childrenofadeadearth.boards.net/post/15894/threadI just recently bought COADE and wanted to get a baseline for what works in space battle and what doesn't as far as armament as the game creator envisioned it. I wanted it to be as equal as possible, so I used AI vs. AI mode in Sandbox in the Orbital Fallout mission present to do this is the fastest way possible. In some cases I adjusted certain actions to get maximum offensive capacity (like launching all missiles with the Siloship). Doesn't make sense to let a Missile/Flak/Drone armed ship be destroyed without using all its payload. That way it's an apples to apples comparison, and skill doesn't enter into it. Conclusions? Mainly that Stock Drones (OR Decoys+Point Defense) beats Stock Missiles, Stock Missiles beats Stock Lasers, and Stock Lasers beat Stock Drones. It's paper, rock, scissors. From this chart the 35Mc Ranger is a Stock Missile Ship killer. Only the Siloship of the Missile Ships by firing all its 340 missiles at once can kill it. The 120 Mc Laser Frigate is a Drone Carrier killer. Only the Fleet Carrier can kill it, and only because the FC has almost as many guns as a Gunship. Any thoughts about stock ships and how they stack up as a guide on COADE and space combat? | LC=Laser armed craft | |
| Decoys(CM) | Beam(B) | Railguns(RG) | Cannon(CN) | | FM=Flak Missile armed |
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| Flak Missiles(FM) | Devastator(D) | Turreted (T) | Coilgun(CG) | | FG=Flak Gun armed |
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| Drones(UAV) |
| Flak(F) | | MS=Missile Ship |
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| Hellfire(HF) |
| Nuke(N) | | DC=Drone Carrier |
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| Lancer(LN) |
| Turreted(T) | | Mc=1,000,000 Credits? |
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| Laser(L) |
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| Nuke Missile(BM) |
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| Shooting Star(SS) |
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| Sniper(SN) |
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| Striker(S) |
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| Cost | Tonnage
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| | 29. LC-Beamcraft | 15 Mc | 913t |
| 1x1MW-L-R(1MW) |
| 4x60MM-TCN | | 28. FG-Marauder | 124 Mc | 7260t |
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| 3x60MM-TCN/1MW-F-CG(500) | | 27. LC-Laser Skiff | 25 Mc | 1700t | 1x100MW-CM(50) | 4x13MW-L-G(52MW) |
| 8x60MM-TCN | | 26. FM-Orbital Defense Craft | 14 Mc | 871t | 2xFM(30) |
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| 4x60MM-TCN/8x33MM-CN | | 25. LC-Cutter | 49 Mc | 3780t | 1x300MW-CM(25) | 8x13MW-L-G(104MW) |
| 4x60MM-TCN | | 24. Tumbler | 19 Mc | 1790t |
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| 1x3mm-RG |
| | 23. Gunskiff | 8 Mc | 785t |
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| 3x3mm-RG | 4x60MM-TCN | | 22. LC-Solar Lance | 173 Mc | 7070t |
| 1x300MW-L-I(300MW) |
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| | 21. Sentinel | 34 Mc | 3770t |
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| 4x11mm-T-RG |
| | 20. FG-Corsair | 38 Mc | 3850t |
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| 4x11mm-T-RG | 1x13MW-F-TCG(1000) | | 19. Raider | 25 Mc | 1610t |
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| 5x3mm-RG | 3x60MM-TCN | | 18. FM-Orbital Attack Craft | 11 Mc | 914t | 2xFM(30) |
| 4x3mm-RG | 4x60MM-TCN | | 17. Patrol Ship | 39 Mc | 1310t |
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| 3x11mm-T-RG | 3x60MM-TCN | | 16. LC-Laser Station | 6290 Mc | 599,000t |
| 1x1GW-L-U(1000MW) |
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| | 15. MS-Privateer | 14 Mc | 1040t |
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| 4x60MM-TCN | | 14./03. LC-Laser Frigate | 120 Mc | 7580t |
| 4x100MW-L-V(400MW) | 8x11mm-T-RG |
| | 13. MS-Skirmisher | 21 Mc | 1110t |
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| 4x60MM-TCN | | 12. FMS-Missile Schooner | 35 Mc | 1980t | 2xFM(100) | 2xS-BM(100) |
| | | 11. Corvette | 139 Mc | 3480t | 3x100MW-CM(150) |
| 6x11mm-T-RG | 4x286MM-TCG | | 10. Ranger | 35 Mc | 2390t | 1x300MW-CM(25) |
| 4x8mm-T-RG | 4x60MM-TCN | | 09/01. LC/FM-Gunship (#9 | vs.Siloship | With 340
| Missiles Launched
| at Once, Still #1 vs. Every Other Stock
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| | 08. MS-Siloship | 134 Mc | 5540t | 4x100MW-CM(200) | 6xS-BM(300)/4xD-BM(40) | 8x11mm-T-RG |
| | 07. DC-Phalanx | 54 Mc | 944t | 3xSS-USV(40) | 3xSS-USV(40) |
| 2x60MM-TCN | | 06. DC-Escort Carrier | 73 Mc | 3780t | 3x100MW-CM(150) | 2xS-USV(25) | 6x11mm-T-RG |
| | 05. DC-Hiveship | 187 Mc | 9130t | 3x100MW-CM(150) | 2xLN-USV(25) | 6x11mm-T-RG | 4xN-TCN(100) | | 04. DC-Support Carrier | 216 Mc | 4910t | 4x100MW-CM(200) | 2xS-USV(25)/2xB-USV(10) | 6x11mm-T-RG | 6x60MM-TCN | | 03./14.LC-Laser Frigate (#3 | vs.Drone | Carriers, | Still #14 vs Other | Stock Ships) |
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| | 02. DC-Fleet Carrier | 335 Mc | 14,800t | 3x200MW-CM(75) | 2xS-USV(50)/2xH-USV(20) | 8x11/4x8mm-T-RG | 4x286MM-TCG | | 01. LC/FM-Gunship | 260 Mc | 9920t | 2xFM(100) | 2x100MW-L-V(200MW) | 8x11/4x8mm-T-RG | 4x286MM-TCG |
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Gunship and Fleet Carrier are about equal in head to head. Depending on the circumstances, one may win out over the other but they are very well matched. Interesting thing about the Missile Ships, it turns out bigger is better, it would come down to who could pump out the most Missiles, and point defense is super important, it can't rely on Missiles alone. Carriers at this time seem to be the strongest stock ships in game except vs. the Laser Frigate or the Gunship (both armed with 100MW V laser). The Gunship seems to be the most powerful stock warship in the COADE, but not in all situations (vs the Siloship). The lasers and the flak are the deciding factor and it is close in certain situations. The Gunship is a very complete ship. If it had a small detachment drones, perhaps 10 stingers, it would be the overwhelming strongest stock ship in COADE. |
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Post by David367th on Jan 13, 2017 4:00:50 GMT
I'm suprised to see the Cutter so low on the ranking, from my experiance it performs better if not the same as a laser frigate as more lasers > single powerful laser.
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 13, 2017 4:12:58 GMT
It depends, really. I really like the gunship, but speaking of combat ability, drone/missile launchers probably won, depending on situation. Stock lasers aren't OP enough.
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Post by deltav on Jan 13, 2017 4:35:25 GMT
I'm suprised to see the Cutter so low on the ranking, from my experiance it performs better if not the same as a laser frigate as more lasers > single powerful laser. I was surprised too. Cutter vs Laser Frigate... The problem with the Cutter it's range is half that of the longest range weapons of the Laser Frigate. Armaments Cutter 1xL Decoy, 8X13 MW Laser (20 km vs Laser Frigate), 4X60 MM Cannon (14.8 km vs Laser Frigate) Laser Frigate 4X100 MW Laser (35 km vs Cutter), 8X11 MM Railgun (34.9 km range vs Cutter) I am still trying to understand how size comes into play. Small size helps, that is why the Ranger is so effective. I would love to see if something about the way things were set up in the AI vs AI battles here skewed the results, even if the Cutter should/ could win. |
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Post by apophys on Jan 13, 2017 4:39:33 GMT
Stock ships aren't a great guide, due to how enormously underpowered stock designs are.
As a (slightly outdated) example for lasers, you can feed 9 GW of power into 1Mm range lasers on a ship costing 12.5 Mc that gets 20 km/s dV.
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Post by deltav on Jan 13, 2017 4:41:00 GMT
It depends, really. I really like the gunship, but speaking of combat ability, drone/missile launchers probably won, depending on situation. Stock lasers aren't OP enough. Yeah I love the Gunship too, it is very much like a old school WW2 Battleship, which has a big cool factor to me. What makes the Gunship come to a draw against 2 Fleet Carriers (strongest stock Carrier) or 10 Siloships (strongest Missile Ship) is the flak and the lasers. The Lasers can basically destroy any Striker drone fleet before it even gets close, The Lasers also are very good against Flak and Striker, and Sniper Missiles. Devastators and Hellfires with their heavier armor get a lot closer the the Gunship though and if enough waves get through, eventually the Gunship is taken out if it can't close with the Missile Ship or Carrier in time. |
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Post by deltav on Jan 13, 2017 4:46:05 GMT
Stock ships aren't a great guide, due to how enormously underpowered stock designs are. As a (slightly outdated) example for lasers, you can feed 9 GW of power into 1Mm range lasers on a ship costing 12.5 Mc that gets 20 km/s dV. Wow can you show me where I can find info on that? I haven't unlocked ship design yet, but so far, lasers are so much more expensive than every other weapons system overall. I know the money isn't real, but I think it gives an idea of how much real resources would have to be devoted/ efficiency. What I am looking for is what weapon types/ ship types are most powerful, as I image modding would only increase the power of the most powerful, and in the end the best is still the best. When I first started playing around with the sandbox, the first thing I did was set up those laser space stations, and found myself very disappointed with what 1 GW laser could do compared to Railgun or other weapons ingame. |
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Post by apophys on Jan 13, 2017 6:46:43 GMT
Wow can you show me where I can find info on that? You can pick up my 10 GW v3.0 reactor for 1.98 Mc (on the standards thread). Compare with the stock 60 MW reactor that costs 3 Mc. For reactor radiators, paper-thin boron nitride or amorphous carbon are commonly used. Add 9 GW worth of custom lasers (for example, 18x 500MW). Paper-thin boron radiators will do for cooling at that temperature. Add a 10 GW custom MPD thruster for orbital maneuvers (turn it off for combat). Low acceleration, but unparalleled dV. Neon is the cheapest propellant; I heartily recommend it. Decane is good if you want useful combat thrust via resistojet. Methane and hydrogen deuteride are options if you want useful combat thrust via NTR. Add one or more weaker thrusters (MPD or resistojet) totaling 1GW of power draw, for combat use (re-orienting the ship, maybe trying to dodge). You can put it inside the frontal ring of lasers if you use a number of lasers with a large-enough central hole, like 18. Or around the sides of the craft, or around the main MPD. Alternately, you can use NTRs and set all 10GW of combat power into 20x lasers. Stir well. Can have everything scaled down one or two orders of magnitude if desired, and can be turned into drones. Missiles should be capable of taking monsters like these down due to sheer volume of fire (super laggy). A recent missile advancement (by jasonvance ) uses a thick frontal armor plate ("radiation shield") to delay lasers trying to burn through. By the way, you can unlock module design immediately, through a poorly-documented feature under "Infolinks." |
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Post by dragonkid11 on Jan 13, 2017 7:05:59 GMT
But of course, if you want to challenge youself to prove that you are worthy enough to use module design.
You can always complete Vesta Overkill...by cheesing it.
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Post by Enderminion on Jan 13, 2017 13:47:18 GMT
Stock ships aren't a great guide, due to how enormously underpowered stock designs are. As a (slightly outdated) example for lasers, you can feed 9 GW of power into 1Mm range lasers on a ship costing 12.5 Mc that gets 20 km/s dV. Wow can you show me where I can find info on that? I haven't unlocked ship design yet, but so far, lasers are so much more expensive than every other weapons system overall. I know the money isn't real, but I think it gives an idea of how much real resources would have to be devoted/ efficiency. What I am looking for is what weapon types/ ship types are most powerful, as I image modding would only increase the power of the most powerful, and in the end the best is still the best. When I first started playing around with the sandbox, the first thing I did was set up those laser space stations, and found myself very disappointed with what 1 GW laser could do compared to Railgun or other weapons ingame. there is no one best weapon, lasers can do any one task, coilguns lob big shells (10 or more kg) railguns are IMO the worst weapon that still is useable unless you use needleguns |
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 13, 2017 13:59:00 GMT
Wow can you show me where I can find info on that? I haven't unlocked ship design yet, but so far, lasers are so much more expensive than every other weapons system overall. I know the money isn't real, but I think it gives an idea of how much real resources would have to be devoted/ efficiency. What I am looking for is what weapon types/ ship types are most powerful, as I image modding would only increase the power of the most powerful, and in the end the best is still the best. When I first started playing around with the sandbox, the first thing I did was set up those laser space stations, and found myself very disappointed with what 1 GW laser could do compared to Railgun or other weapons ingame. there is no one best weapon, lasers can do any one task, coilguns lob big shells (10 or more kg) railguns are IMO the worst weapon that still is useable unless you use needleguns If you follow the development of those player megacorps, you will find that gigawatt lasers will dominate the future warfare pretty quickly. Heck, even my 30 MW laser can kill drones from 250 km away, and 20 missiles will be gone when they are 100 km away. ...and that's not even near the gigawatt lasers. If you are, by any chance, prefer realistic fire rate, you will quickly found that coilguns are one of the hardest weapon to keep in the realm of reality. They accelerate their huge projectiles up to absurd speed, and thus consuming a lot of energy. Thus, my preference is railguns. They are much easier to maintain their fire rate. |
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Post by Enderminion on Jan 13, 2017 16:19:06 GMT
there is no one best weapon, lasers can do any one task, coilguns lob big shells (10 or more kg) railguns are IMO the worst weapon that still is useable unless you use needleguns If you follow the development of those player megacorps, you will find that gigawatt lasers will dominate the future warfare pretty quickly. Heck, even my 30 MW laser can kill drones from 250 km away, and 20 missiles will be gone when they are 100 km away. ...and that's not even near the gigawatt lasers. If you are, by any chance, prefer realistic fire rate, you will quickly found that coilguns are one of the hardest weapon to keep in the realm of reality. They accelerate their huge projectiles up to absurd speed, and thus consuming a lot of energy. Thus, my preference is railguns. They are much easier to maintain their fire rate. I can't build railguns for any-good coilguns are IMO easier to build |
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 13, 2017 16:24:39 GMT
If you follow the development of those player megacorps, you will find that gigawatt lasers will dominate the future warfare pretty quickly. Heck, even my 30 MW laser can kill drones from 250 km away, and 20 missiles will be gone when they are 100 km away. ...and that's not even near the gigawatt lasers. If you are, by any chance, prefer realistic fire rate, you will quickly found that coilguns are one of the hardest weapon to keep in the realm of reality. They accelerate their huge projectiles up to absurd speed, and thus consuming a lot of energy. Thus, my preference is railguns. They are much easier to maintain their fire rate. I can't build railguns for any-good coilguns are IMO easier to build Then there's me who's pumping railguns like crazy and not touching coilgun even a bit. The latest model was created 1-2 months ago, maybe? I'm pumping new railguns designs almost everyday I play CoaDE. |
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Post by dragonkid11 on Jan 13, 2017 16:46:24 GMT
Railgun is still good because unlike coilgun, they use almost everything as armature while coilgun is stuck to crappy but cheap iron, good but expensive nickel alloy that I forgot what it's name is and hyper expensive metallic metal glass.
Only those three options are options, the rest are literal garbage.
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Post by Easy on Jan 13, 2017 16:59:09 GMT
there is no one best weapon, lasers can do any one task, coilguns lob big shells (10 or more kg) railguns are IMO the worst weapon that still is useable unless you use needleguns If you follow the development of those player megacorps, you will find that gigawatt lasers will dominate the future warfare pretty quickly. Heck, even my 30 MW laser can kill drones from 250 km away, and 20 missiles will be gone when they are 100 km away. ...and that's not even near the gigawatt lasers. If you are, by any chance, prefer realistic fire rate, you will quickly found that coilguns are one of the hardest weapon to keep in the realm of reality. They accelerate their huge projectiles up to absurd speed, and thus consuming a lot of energy. Thus, my preference is railguns. They are much easier to maintain their fire rate. The goofy thing about GiggaWatt+ lasers as a be-all is nothing prevents launching an unmanned laser drone or laser drones of equivalent power (and maybe more laser turret armor) to counter laser turrets with lasers. Then the whole framerate killing laser resistant missile swarm. Combine the two and you have 100km laser versus laser with player optimized missiles crossing the gap very quickly. Don't forget that drones can be capital ship sized and do benefit from the lack of crew. For an experiment duplicate your favorite ship, remove the crew compartment and add a few remote controls. Then put its launcher on an unarmored station. |
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