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Post by goduranus on Dec 8, 2016 19:18:25 GMT
Seems that the minimum intensity below which lasers can't destroy any material in game is about 10kw/m^2, how about we have the game intrepret the range at which a laser falls below this intensity to be its max range, so their range would be capped at where a weapon is unlikely to do any damage rather than an arbitray cutoff similar to projectile weapons? Then the player could manually set the slider to limit the laser to a shorter range, or ignore range, which would come in handy in case he has multiple lasers that could add to the total power ouput.
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Post by shurugal on Dec 8, 2016 21:56:36 GMT
+1
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Post by dragonkid11 on Dec 8, 2016 23:17:26 GMT
Okay,this is getting a bit ridiculous.
Strategy of getting missiles or drones to counter superlaser across the distance of 1000 kilometers already started to lag up most common brand computer.
Extend the range to 10000 kilometer and you could probably only use the superlaser with super lag too.
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Post by goduranus on Dec 9, 2016 0:04:40 GMT
Qswitched did say he wants realism over gameplay tho.
I suspect if lasers were extended to this range of 10kw/m^2, missiles and guns might not be able to cross the killzone at all.
Off the top of my head, someusername6's 10GW laser has something like 400MW/m^2 at 1000km, so the range that this laser drops to 10kw is 200,000 km. Even at this low intensity, commonly used aramid fiber and aerogel armors would melt away well before the missile or drone they were protecting could get in range to return fire on the laser ship.
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Post by cuddlefish on Dec 9, 2016 0:18:40 GMT
I suspect that a lot of the blame for the ungodly-death-laser meta can be laid at the remarkably high energy reactors able to be made at present. Improved coolant modeling will likely change that state of affairs dramatically - so that might be worth looking at first, before going too far in terms of accommodating for said meta.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 9, 2016 1:00:24 GMT
I suspect that a lot of the blame for the ungodly-death-laser meta can be laid at the remarkably high energy reactors able to be made at present. Improved coolant modeling will likely change that state of affairs dramatically - so that might be worth looking at first, before going too far in terms of accommodating for said meta. Missile spam beats Death Stars, though, on a ton for ton or credit for credit basis. True, doing so will lag the game, but that's not Lasers are imba, it's that hyperoptimized missiles coated in some form of aerogel+carbon composite are super cheap and have great performance. Plus, if you can manage a multi-km/s intercept (always doable vs AI) the laser has almost no time to kill your missiles before it dies. |
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 1:46:12 GMT
I suspect that a lot of the blame for the ungodly-death-laser meta can be laid at the remarkably high energy reactors able to be made at present. Improved coolant modeling will likely change that state of affairs dramatically - so that might be worth looking at first, before going too far in terms of accommodating for said meta. Missile spam beats Death Stars, though, on a ton for ton or credit for credit basis. True, doing so will lag the game, but that's not Lasers are imba, it's that hyperoptimized missiles coated in some form of aerogel+carbon composite are super cheap and have great performance. Plus, if you can manage a multi-km/s intercept (always doable vs AI) the laser has almost no time to kill your missiles before it dies. my counter for missile spam is coilgun flare. expensive, yes, but cheaper than losing my laser boat. |
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 9, 2016 2:29:54 GMT
My counter to that is multiple missile drone carriers launching multiple streams of missiles. 15 missiles per second per carrier means that even if my missiles get sucked towards your decoy, I'll make up for them in sheer volume.
For example, my LMK launchers carry 450 Light missiles ea and can dispense 2 a per second per launcher. Their Carrier carriers 12 of these and 8 medium missile launchers.
(I can increase cyclic rate of fire even more but then we get into game crash territory instead of game lag territory)
"Okay, a few hundred or thousand missiles got sucked off. Keep launching a few hundred per second."
In addition, I'll have my own artillery needlegun drones shooting at the laser from beyond 1Mm. Sure, you can return fire with ignore range and pop my drones before my needles impact, but it's likely a few of my 150 km/s (or faster!) needles will hit and the Needlegun drones are far cheaper than Laser Drones on a cost basis.
Lasers are great. Lasers need something else to support them though; I don't think a monolithic arms strategy is at all optimal (i.e. a combined arms stratagem is superior)
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Post by shurugal on Dec 9, 2016 3:01:35 GMT
are 150 km/s rail/coil projectiles still possible? I had thought that was changed.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 9, 2016 5:38:01 GMT
are 150 km/s rail/coil projectiles still possible? I had thought that was changed. Concretedonkey's 'needle' system lets you decrease payload mass below .2 grams, so yes. The main problem with needleguns is the immense amount of lag upon impact they cause. It's far worse than my missile storms, which is saying something. |
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Post by lawson on Dec 9, 2016 7:58:48 GMT
are 150 km/s rail/coil projectiles still possible? I had thought that was changed. I just made a 135km/s rail-gun that has a 500mg Lithium flak payload. Oddly enough, the gun won't work without the payload. Wouldn't be surprised if 150km/s can be done with the right payload mass. |
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Post by goduranus on Dec 9, 2016 8:42:23 GMT
Ahh, lithium, that's the stuff that melts with 10kw/m^2, the laser ships will be effective against it from 200,000km, giving it 40minutes to dodge the projectiles.
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