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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 22, 2016 6:24:02 GMT
Moving this discussion to a new thread because I felt I was hijacking the "Giant Guns" thread too much. So I was noticing how difficult it was to design a coilgun with a decently shaped penetrator. At best I was coming up with a projectile that was slightly longer than it was wide and most times it was basically shooting a magnetic glass flapjack at the target. A square hit could be devastating, but a hit on angled armor would usually result in the shot ricocheting off with little or not damage done. While looking through some of the nuke launchers I got to thinking, "Wait a minute; instead of treating the coilgun's solenoid as the projectile, why don't we treat it as a shuttle or maybe a sabot and use it to launch an actual penetrator instead." Second night of experiments and I have this ship Attachment DeletedCarrying this gun Attachment DeletedThat shoots these projectiles. Attachment DeletedThree out of three Gunships agree that this is totally unfair, OP, and nerf pls! It still needs more refinements, the shot speed is still low and I've managed to push 10m^2 accuracy out to about 16 km but it's still lower than I want it. Still, it's much cheaper than using just magnetic glass and the effect on target is magnificent! I will have to shoot some video of exactly what this system can do!
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Post by goduranus on Nov 22, 2016 6:40:07 GMT
But if you fire actual projectiles, thhe muzzle velocity is very low and you end up being outranged by comparable coilguns firing only their apartures
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Post by zuthal on Nov 22, 2016 9:56:32 GMT
Muzzle velocity is lower, but not necessarily too much lower - as that coilgun demonstrates by still having 6.6 km/s of muzzle velocity.
Also, I am dubbing this type of projectile APNDS - Armour piercing non-discarding sabot. It also allows your ammo to be a LOT cheaper, since the armature materials for coilguns are so damn expensive.
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Post by amimai on Nov 22, 2016 10:38:55 GMT
Make a 210g potassium flack shell, set detonation range to 1km Make payload flack shell(ie no armour or anything) Load into a 80MW 20km/s coilgun, point Shoot something Get Swiss cheese
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Post by thinespree on Nov 22, 2016 11:46:52 GMT
Make a 210g potassium flack shell, set detonation range to 1km Make payload flack shell(ie no armour or anything) Load into a 80MW 20km/s coilgun, point Shoot something Get Swiss cheese Then remember that you need a RC unit to make them go off instead of being a over priced AP shell
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Post by amimai on Nov 22, 2016 11:52:47 GMT
actually you don't ^.^
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 22, 2016 13:09:24 GMT
They still exploded on impact even without RC.
Still trying to figure out how to make cost effective heavy coilgun launcher since my micromissiles can mostly do the job on their own.
But for launching solid projectile? It might just works better but I'm still not sure how.
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Post by dpidz0r on Nov 22, 2016 16:22:37 GMT
I've been experimenting with launching micromissiles from a nose mounted coilgun. Problem currently is the missile guidance. Sometimes they'll be on point and smash into the target with all ~15km/s built up from the gun + rocket motor (2-3 solid hits like this the target is dead), and then other times it's like the target has a deflector shield causing them to spazz out and miss at the last second.
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 22, 2016 16:41:56 GMT
But if you fire actual projectiles, thhe muzzle velocity is very low and you end up being outranged by comparable coilguns firing only their apartures Yes, you are right. The armature alone will be faster and more accurate, but I'm discovering a couple of things. First off is co$t. I was getting tired of 6 Mcr of a 7 Mcr weapon system being the part that gets expended down the barrel. Second is effect on target. I've noticed that it's difficult to shape the armature into a good penetrator (long-and-thin), most are wider than they are long causing them to easily deflect off the target unless they catch the target squarely (I was reading of one gun that fired 1-ton projectiles that were having trouble breaching targets). Furthermore, most high-efficiency armature materials have terrible mechanical properties so they'll either shatter or squish on impact. Firing a 1.5 kg tungsten projectile at a stock gunship I'm finding the battle lasts until the first solid hit. The projectile usually enters through the front plate, runs the length of the ship, and exits through the radiation shield, reactor, and engines. EVERYTHING inside the armor envelope is destroyed either through direct effect or fragmentation. Muzzle velocity is lower, but not necessarily too much lower - as that coilgun demonstrates by still having 6.6 km/s of muzzle velocity. The key seems to be minimizing projectile mass while still being an effective penetrator. I may try reducing the mass even further to see what happens. Also, I am dubbing this type of projectile APNDS - Armour piercing non-discarding sabot. It also allows your ammo to be a LOT cheaper, since the armature materials for coilguns are so damn expensive. That does sound quite a bit more professional than the APFU-T designation I was batting around XD. It really does, my Mk.I-A5 fighter costed over 13 Mcr to field, the A6 version cuts that almost in half.
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acatalepsy
Junior Member
Not Currently In Space
Posts: 97
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Post by acatalepsy on Nov 22, 2016 17:27:15 GMT
Does the shape even matter all that much? At the velocities we're talking about, with the kinds of armor that are feasible to put on a ship and still have it be able to get anywhere, I'm not at all sure that kinetic munition shape is all that relevant. If the KKV hits going 10 km/s, the target is going to have a No Good Very Bad Day, whether the munition is shaped like a spike or a pancake.
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Post by zuthal on Nov 22, 2016 17:58:42 GMT
Specifics of the shape - e.g. a cone vs a blunt rod, do not matter at those speeds, no.
What does still matter for penetration, however, is sectional density, or how long the penetrator is relative to its thickness. Because, with the same mass projectile going at the same speed, a long rod will focus the energy on a much smaller area than a flat plate.
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 22, 2016 18:08:26 GMT
Does the shape even matter all that much? At the velocities we're talking about, with the kinds of armor that are feasible to put on a ship and still have it be able to get anywhere, I'm not at all sure that kinetic munition shape is all that relevant. If the KKV hits going 10 km/s, the target is going to have a No Good Very Bad Day, whether the munition is shaped like a spike or a pancake. You wouldn't think so... hell I wouldn't think so. And yet, it does seem to make a difference. The previous version of the gun firing a 3.5 kg glass projectile at 9 km/s had some trouble defeating the armor on a stock gunship. What would usually happen is it would weather the storm until it got in range for it's own guns and as it swung broadside enough shells would hit the now flat edge of its armor and knock it out. The tungsten projectile just honey-badgers its way through as soon as the target is in range. But ya, the sharp point is just for show XD I suppose the difference is between giving the bad guy a "bad day" (target destroyed, 90% ammunition expended) and giving them a "very, VERY bad day" (target destroyed, 5% ammunition expended, never even got close enough to shoot back). My next version I'll probably just use a tungsten "radiation shield" for the penetrator and compare the two.
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Post by ash19256 on Nov 22, 2016 22:45:58 GMT
Question. Does it need the flare?
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 22, 2016 22:51:16 GMT
Question. Does it need the flare? Only if you want any kind of tracer. Other than that, nope.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 22, 2016 23:11:00 GMT
Could you show us the design for the launcher coilgun?
I have been having trouble with making coilgun that's cost effective AND effective enough to launch payload.
The only successful result I have is with conventional cannon launcher and they are...heavy so to speak.
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