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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Aug 23, 2018 8:53:55 GMT
On ships equipped with roll capable RCS thrusters (RCS either with large-angle gimbals or set into polygonal hull in such way to apply torque) rolling seems to work or not work randomly, although fairly consistently on a per-blueprint basis.
Displayed rollabout time always reflects the presence of roll thrusters and their effect is also quite dramatic in-game - if they work.
When the do not work you can see the thrusters firing in such way that should spin up the ship, but either no spin is applied or it is applied very slowly, completely at odds with displayed rollabout time.
Since it hints at deeper issues with ship physics modelling and since it is currently the only way to make roll capable ships without gimbals, it calls for investigation.
Edit: The only pattern I see with roll RCS working or not is that designs based on broken symmetry (thrusters in a single ring providing both torque directions - for example 45o 4x group on hex armour, or 0o 6x group on flattened hex armour) are more likely to fail - which is inconvenient given that such designs are less hassle to create and usually can have less individual thrusters.
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Post by anotherfirefox on Aug 23, 2018 14:27:33 GMT
Can you elaborate? I mean, in every case a single ring of engines would provide both torque...at list part of, isn't it?
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Aug 23, 2018 15:15:49 GMT
Can you elaborate? I mean, in every case a single ring of engines would provide both torque...at list part of, isn't it? Rollabout calculation involves having thrusters providing torque for both starting and ending the roll. Not balancing resulting torques also wreaks havoc on RCS assisted/powered pitch and yaw.
There are two approaches to (non/low gimbal) roll thrusters, both using polygonal hull:
- Paired of groups of thrusters having the same symmetry as ship's hull (so for hexagonal hull this can be 2, 3 or 6 thrusters) and same offset along ship's axis, but rotated in opposite directions as close as possible to hull's edges so that they provide opposed torques.
- A single group with different symmetry that puts pairs of thrusters in symmetrical arrangement for creating or killing the spin (for example, for hexagonal hull this can be 4 thrusters at 45o, for flattened hexagonal it can be 6 thrusters at 0o as 4 of them will no longer fall on edges, but on opposing sides of the two widest faces).
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Post by anotherfirefox on Aug 23, 2018 15:37:56 GMT
Can you elaborate? I mean, in every case a single ring of engines would provide both torque...at list part of, isn't it? Rollabout calculation involves having thrusters providing torque for both starting and ending the roll. Not balancing resulting torques also wreaks havoc on RCS assisted/powered pitch and yaw.
There are two approaches to (non/low gimbal) roll thrusters, both using polygonal hull:
- Paired of groups of thrusters having the same symmetry as ship's hull (so for hexagonal hull this can be 2, 3 or 6 thrusters) and same offset along ship's axis, but rotated in opposite directions as close as possible to hull's edges so that they provide opposed torques.
- A single group with different symmetry that puts pairs of thrusters in symmetrical arrangement for creating or killing the spin (for example, for hexagonal hull this can be 4 thrusters at 45o, for flattened hexagonal it can be 6 thrusters at 0o as 4 of them will no longer fall on edges, but on opposing sides of the two widest faces).
sounds like this game can't handle the engines individually but by groups. The wow meter just exploded. In that case high gimbal rcs wouldn't be affected by it, isn't it? |
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Aug 23, 2018 18:50:34 GMT
Rollabout calculation involves having thrusters providing torque for both starting and ending the roll. Not balancing resulting torques also wreaks havoc on RCS assisted/powered pitch and yaw.
There are two approaches to (non/low gimbal) roll thrusters, both using polygonal hull:
- Paired of groups of thrusters having the same symmetry as ship's hull (so for hexagonal hull this can be 2, 3 or 6 thrusters) and same offset along ship's axis, but rotated in opposite directions as close as possible to hull's edges so that they provide opposed torques.
- A single group with different symmetry that puts pairs of thrusters in symmetrical arrangement for creating or killing the spin (for example, for hexagonal hull this can be 4 thrusters at 45o, for flattened hexagonal it can be 6 thrusters at 0o as 4 of them will no longer fall on edges, but on opposing sides of the two widest faces).
sounds like this game can't handle the engines individually but by groups. The wow meter just exploded. In that case high gimbal rcs wouldn't be affected by it, isn't it? The engines can be seen firing individually. RCS groups also work just fine for pitch and yaw. Finally, I have some very similar setups in my collection some of which do roll properly while the other don't. |
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