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Post by lieste on Jul 7, 2018 14:38:42 GMT
Here I am trying to mop up a missile fleet. Note the *maximum* distance I can get an intercept to register, and the 'zag' in the prediction which will later cause an "intercept failed" prompt... And then the actual intercept obtained: Why, with a gun range of 118km do I have to pass within 1.9km to register an engagement?
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ghgh
Full Member
Still trying to make kinetics work.
Posts: 136
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Post by ghgh on Jul 7, 2018 20:58:31 GMT
Is the range of 118km only for targets with a surface area of +1000 m? Or is it for meter targets?
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Post by lieste on Jul 7, 2018 21:42:39 GMT
Those are FlaK missiles (1.37m^2) (iirc). Intercept started at around 125km.
118km range vs them. ~1.3Mm kill range vs large capital ships.
(Not a very expensive platform, 27.3km/s DV, 5.61kt, 35 Mc, single 340MW Railgun, on an 1110m^2 hull)
(88.9km vs 1m^2, 884km vs 1000m^2 "sand" type RG).
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ghgh
Full Member
Still trying to make kinetics work.
Posts: 136
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Post by ghgh on Jul 8, 2018 11:20:47 GMT
I think closest approach is the closest you will get to the target when maintaining an intercept and before homing/maneuvering. On a side note, what's the acceleration on your MPD? I noticed that the wider the shield on them the higher the thrust and more expensive they are.
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Jul 8, 2018 12:32:52 GMT
Orbit accuracy decreases the further you go from the last maneuver. You can fix this by adding a miniscule course adjustment just before the intercept.
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Post by lieste on Jul 8, 2018 13:02:51 GMT
Sure, but that is the 'zag' only, the main point is that the plotted intercept is only available when I get the closest approach below 2km, while I *will* intercept if passing within 120km. Why can't I *plan* for a 110km or better intercept?
Even with a late adjustment I will only see an intercept at <2km.
I have to plan intercepts early, as the acceleration is not exceptional, so course changes have to happen early, ideally plotted half to one orbit in advance.... but against most ships getting within 800-1500km is 'close enough', and I can harass and pursue all month if a more agile fleet evades, and have sufficient delta-v to catch most things, and a small re-fuel requirement. (2kt is a complete resupply).
Acceleration numbers: 2.5-9.05 mg0, with 9 xenon MPD active (7D 2h burn time), I might be able to redesign that to obtain more performance, but it is a silly thing I take out for fun, rather than a terribly practical design. (Long range PD ftw).
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Jul 8, 2018 14:04:58 GMT
It seems like floating point math derping out to me.
I have seen it and it is infuriating, I have also seen stuff like high velocity intercept ending with everything zeroed - distance, both veolocities - and encounter starting with enemy fleet sitting right in the middle of stationary drone/missile swarm.
IMO floating point calculations are just bad idea unless they cannot be avoided at given point (for example when feeding what falls out of engine into renderer). We have 64bit precision these days - enough to map out the entire Solar System down to millimetre accuracy.
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Post by antonindvorak on Jul 8, 2018 16:42:24 GMT
90377 Sedna is being one of the farthest minor planets, so it is a fair metrestick for the size of the solar system, especially in context of CODAE --- which would likely be fine if we cut off somewhere beyond Pluto (Aphelion: 7.4* 10^9 km).
Aphelion 90377 Sedna: 1.4 * 10^11 km == 1.4 * 10^17 mm 64 bit = 1.8 * 10^19
That gives us ~0.01mm on distance[1] and similar on angle, so we can do in fact better than just millimetre accuracy.
[1] assuming a distance + 2 angles notation
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Jul 8, 2018 18:04:37 GMT
I was thinking Cartesian - same precision everywhere.
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Jul 9, 2018 19:40:50 GMT
same precision everywhere Math happening close to the simulation origin will still be more precise thanks to how floating point numbers work. Also, numerically integrating the orbit will mean accumulating errors the further you go. Are you even sure the orbit simulation doesn't already use 64-bit floats? It wouldn't be a major change to do it so I'd imagine it already runs on double precision.
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Jul 9, 2018 19:48:06 GMT
same precision everywhere Math happening close to the simulation origin will still be more precise thanks to how floating point numbers work. Also, numerically integrating the orbit will mean accumulating errors the further you go. Are you even sure the orbit simulation doesn't already use 64-bit floats? It wouldn't be a major change to do it so I'd imagine it already runs on double precision. I meant 64b ints. Why trade valuable precision for ability to handle stuff on microscopic scales (close to the origin) or galactic scales (far away) if neither interests us?
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Jul 9, 2018 20:10:29 GMT
I meant 64b ints. Why trade valuable precision for ability to handle stuff on microscopic scales (close to the origin) or galactic scales (far away) if neither interests us? Because fixed point math will be significantly slower than floating points, since there's no hardware implementation of them in the CPU. There also doesn't seem to be too many ready-made implementations (because what madman would want to use them?) so you'd have to implement a whole bunch of math algorithms yourself. Already the orbits can get quite laggy in gas giant systems, I don't want to suffer even worse just to get some more precision, when the worst issues can be worked around quite easily.
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Jul 10, 2018 6:00:41 GMT
Modern processors have specialized FPUs, but ints are every processor's native tongue - I am not sure if it would be slower. It probably would be slower IF game's logic was running on GPU because of massively parallel processing, but other than that?
You don't need fixed point calculations specifically, you can go with bare ints as long as you can live with arbitrary units you pick to avoid overflows on one side and cover your range of expected values on the other.
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Jul 10, 2018 11:20:19 GMT
You don't need fixed point calculations specifically, you can go with bare ints as long as you can live with arbitrary units you pick to avoid overflows on one side and cover your range of expected values on the other. What you've done there is you've just described fixed point numbers. Adding and subtraction will work fine on native integer operations, but things get hairy once you need anything more complicated. There's no hardware trigonometry or square root operators for integers so you'll have to make your own software implementation, which will be extremely slow by comparison.
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