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Post by Durandal on Oct 9, 2016 1:47:31 GMT
Argonbalt, your ships look beautiful. I wonder, what is the lean animalistic purpose of that gold piping there?  Joking aside, they look great. I particularly like your laser destroyer. |
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Post by argonbalt on Oct 9, 2016 8:46:09 GMT
Argonbalt, your ships look beautiful. I wonder, what is the lean animalistic purpose of that gold piping there? Joking aside, they look great. I particularly like your laser destroyer. Thanks!, honestly im starting to consider using visual identification code symbols(mainly for aesthetic purposes). Besides that as some one who is coming from both an appreciation of physics and hard sci-fi, but also studying fine arts, i have come to a pretty straightforward conclusion. It's (far more) easy to create a design like an x wing and make it cool, you have a huge language of jet and prop plane design to draw from and you can play fast and loose with the physics, but when you move into the hyper realistic everything has allot more "mass"(pun intended) when it is included in the design. Every atom of paint, every scrap of extra fins etc, ACTUALLY weighs into the design, so if, for example, we get to the point were we start painting 30m nose art of tiger mouths and Greek trireme eyes, we will REALLY mean business. |
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Post by 314159 on Oct 9, 2016 9:40:07 GMT
- Delta V is king, much like how humans are exhaustion predators that starve and tire their prey with relentless pursuit, it does not matter how dangerous the "claws" "teeth" or "poison" of a ship/drone/missile is if it can no longer get to you/no longer move, a current bare minimum of 7 Km/s is ideal, though i am pushing fuel and engine designs to hopefully get 10 Km/s as the default. Nice-looking designs! However, the part I've quoted above is something I'd actually disagree with - deltaV is very important, true. It's even more important in a fight between two combat spacecraft without submunitions. But you can't rely on it to defeat submunitions, whether drones or missiles. As an example, assume you have a capital spacecraft with 10km/s dV, while the enemy mostly fields drones (or missiles) with a dV of 5km/s. The enemy now fires one quarter of their ammunition at you. If you cannot confidently defend against them, you have to dodge, costing you roughly 5km/s dV. Repeating this drains all of your dV, leaving the enemy to reign supreme in orbit. In essence, an enemy sporting submunitions has an effective dV of drone_dV * salvoes they can use to drain yours. First up is the Coil Lancer, a ship so ludicrously overpowered that even if the main gun is turned off it's engagement range alone would allow a fleet to begin combat while hundreds of kilometres away. This thing still outclasses lasers and will until the prevailing issues with coil guns become mitigated, in which case it will be fine tuned back up to the furthest range possible. This extreme range is only made worse by the fact it has a calibre that has not been seen since the Ottoman's needed to get rid of crusader castles. This ship acts as a front-line engagement vessel, comparative to a gunship, and is the core of the fleet. Also equipped with the variable Angel Dancer missile to deal with pesky missiles and drones. Is that coil gun almost as long as the rest of the ship?  (Is it a broken design?) Also, could you post the angel dancer missile details? |
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Post by concretedonkey on Oct 9, 2016 15:48:11 GMT
 Nice work Argonbalt! I hope you don't mind if I steal a bit of your knowhow . |
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Post by argonbalt on Oct 9, 2016 18:55:34 GMT
Nice-looking designs! However, the part I've quoted above is something I'd actually disagree with - deltaV is very important, true. It's even more important in a fight between two combat spacecraft without submunitions. But you can't rely on it to defeat submunitions, whether drones or missiles. As an example, assume you have a capital spacecraft with 10km/s dV, while the enemy mostly fields drones (or missiles) with a dV of 5km/s. The enemy now fires one quarter of their ammunition at you. If you cannot confidently defend against them, you have to dodge, costing you roughly 5km/s dV. Repeating this drains all of your dV, leaving the enemy to reign supreme in orbit. In essence, an enemy sporting submunitions has an effective dV of drone_dV * salvoes they can use to drain yours. Is that coil gun almost as long as the rest of the ship? (Is it a broken design?) Also, could you post the angel dancer missile details? In regards to Dv reliance, true one has to always consider the Dv of the enemy ships, but lucky for me i also back up the Dv with ludicrous weapon designs, and once again in the same manner that the enemy has missile/drone Dv * salvoes i have the 10 km/s * Angel Dancers so it more or less equals out. Likewise with drones each ship can pretty much take them out more in one way or another with each design. Arsenal Gear can quite literally melt drones to slag with the amount of ORA warheads it coughs out, Musai-Kai has it's own Op Coil drones so it also does not really need to engage in any direct attacks. Same for the coil lancer (whom is broken in the sense that i have not done the math but i would suspect it is just a bit too much on the efficient side, still gonnah use it though) and Laser Destroyer with default ranges of 250 and 260ish? Km.  As for the Angel Dancer it is not an especially amazing missile, just a blunt Ke killer with a crap load of explosives. In fact, while it can be effective against medium sized fleets (4 craft i tested it with against gunship/beam craft/missile ship/escort carrier) u have to use it in numbers of around 20+, but if it hits it does pack a punch, however what i have found to be far more effective(and hilarious) against a huge fleet of 2 gunships, 4 laser frigates and 16 corvettes, is to saturate them with a manual detonation of around a hundred ORA missiles, this has the dual effect of knocking their engines out(usually) and actually spinning their ships Orion Drive style. Then when they are nicely re creating Anakin's Naboo fighter from EP1, you need only like 5? maybe probably 3 or even 2 Angel dancers, by this point the whipple bumpers should be freshly melted cosmic dust, then the 2 or 3 Angel Dancers slice whatever they are locked onto in half. It seems more expensive because you launch 100+ Nuclear ORA missiles, but considering you would typically need 20-25 Angel dancers to get past laser/ciws cannons, and even then whipple bumpers and the right armour can fuck up things. So with a pure Ke orientation of nothing but Angel Dancers, for the aforementioned mega fleet you'd need: 25*(2gunships,4laser frigs,16 vettes), each Angel Dancer Mk1 is 3.66Kc, so you get 50, for the gunship, 200 for the laz's, and a whopping 400 for all the vettes. You end up with needing 2 million 379 thousand credits.
With a mix of ORA's and Angel dancers: ORA's are 4.35 a pop, so for a hundred pack is 435 kc, now adjust the number of Angel Dancer's to 3 per ship and you only need 66 which brings your total down to 241.56 Kc, so in summation total cost is now 676.thousand,5 hundred and sixty credits.
So that's only 28.4 percent of the initial estimate and a saving of over 70% in sweet sweet money. AND THAT'S JUST IN CASH!, unsurprisingly things that store energy in a somewhat, oh i don't know condensed fissionable form, are also markedly lighter as well. The ORA is 1.03 tons, and the AG MK1 is 1.11. so with the first "pure" Ke set up we get a nutzo 721 tonnes of Angel Dancers, compare that to just 176.26 tonnes for the second mixed model with both missile types. And this is all before we start getting into missile v missile fights. |
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 10, 2016 0:35:34 GMT
Ok so I see all of these really nice kinetic kill missiles but I got a very nice flack missile that'll go through 2 1cm boron wiffle shields both a bit over 1 meter away from each other and a meter of Osmium. It is also immune to GW class lasers  These are the warheads:  |
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Post by argonbalt on Oct 10, 2016 1:11:18 GMT
So is it just me or do the longer cylindrical style flak bombs do better than flat penny style discs?
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Post by ross128 on Oct 10, 2016 1:25:28 GMT
It is true that despite some of the absurdly powerful warheads we've been able to cook up, the humble flak missile is still nothing to laugh at. What they lack in individual power, they more than make up for with quantity. A ship may be able to shrug off one flak missile, but a few hundred will ruin anyone's day. When they weigh only 13kg and cost only 70c, it's easy to field them by the thousands.  |
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 10, 2016 2:13:09 GMT
The best type of flack missiles throw the biggest number of fragments. Heavier is worse. It's massive number of small high velocity impact that'll kill an enemy. I also have another version with 2 tons of those warheads and it'll punch one massive hole through 2 boron wiffle shield and 1 meter of osmium and another equally huge whole out the other side! If the missile hits that is one just huge whole through the whole ship!
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Post by concretedonkey on Oct 10, 2016 4:15:10 GMT
It depends on the purpose of the warhead and the carrier. The faster the carrier the smaller fragments are usefull and the other way around. And ofcourse if you are going to blow up just drones and other missiles there usually isn't any sense of going for larger fragments. On the other hand my kinetic flak missiles use fairly large fragments of 100 200 grams, but the balance there was having any fragments at all or just a few.
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Post by nerd1000 on Oct 10, 2016 13:35:52 GMT
We were fools... We fought ourselves... We made ourselves weak... Then they came...  As you can see, I have created alien flying saucers (with rapid fire 10 km/s coilguns and 13MW green lasers). Performance isn't great compared to a 'sensible' ship design, mostly because there's no way to cram more fuel into that big empty gap around the outside. On the plus side, the disc shape means that the armour is well sloped and the engines are completely hidden inside the hull (It's alien technology, don't question it).  I also made a 1.6km diameter mothership that could carry 50 saucers, but the game crashed when I tried to load it into the sandbox  . |
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Post by redparadize on Oct 10, 2016 15:15:14 GMT
Hi all. Anyways, I did some test with KKV missiles, the thing is they often get zap out and I only can to hit a single ship per voley. So my Idea was to replace KKV by drone and deliver as much playload on multiple target at the same time. But your concept is intresting, I will redo my Dart missile with a explosive warhead and see what I can get from it. I have a design that I am kinda pround of: Nostromo:  Playload: 100 Tunderbolt II drones 1t 20KC 10kDV. 4x18MM guns 5 gram at 1.70km/s 20 Laserbolt II drones 1t 20KC 10kDV. 620kw Near Red laser. 20 high ejection speed105MW Flare   The concept is simple, I send volays of 5 Tunderbolt II and 1 Laserbolt II. The intercepts typicality happen at 5km/s to 7km/s. The laserbolt is just there to have a +100km engagement. The 5 tunderbolt will fire a combined 1111 rounds per seconds from the 100km mark. Given the intercept is around 5km/s and that my guns shoot at 1.70km/s. Thats 5.555kg at 6.7km/s every secs. Much better than any weapons of equal or lower of my 6x1t dromes. Depending on hardness of enemy ships, I will try to switch targets every second or so. There is no ship that can sustain that much damage. I can defeat or seriously damage 10 ships on a single voley. On the defensive side. These drones have enough Dv to catch anything comming against the Nostromo. And I have plenty of DV on the it to dodge if necessery. |
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Post by concretedonkey on Oct 10, 2016 16:53:12 GMT
 Isn't she beautiful? How is that striped pattern possible with only 5 layers of armour you ask? Well it seems kind sirs , that our beloved developer used a fixed tessalation on the armor geometry  . The answer lies in the radial percentage that you see , when you start contracting radially the geometry the loops start to shift on one side and no longer overlap. The striped pattern comes from one layer coming over the other and so on... Now if we only had more colours... |
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Post by argonbalt on Oct 10, 2016 18:00:26 GMT
Isn't she beautiful? How is that striped pattern possible with only 5 layers of armour you ask? Well it seems kind sirs , that our beloved developer used a fixed tessalation on the armor geometry . The answer lies in the radial percentage that you see , when you start contracting radially the geometry the loops start to shift on one side and no longer overlap. The striped pattern comes from one layer coming over the other and so on... Now if we only had more colours... That is a excellent design aesthetics wise. |
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Post by concretedonkey on Oct 10, 2016 18:44:51 GMT
Thanks , it works well in practice as a carrier, it desperatly need a good escort however. Falls easy pray to well designed drones. A littlebit short on power, but it was a test hull anyway.
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