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Post by concretedonkey on Jul 2, 2017 19:26:58 GMT
I liked concretedonkey 's armor scheme but I thought I could do better if I switched to a more compact fuel than Hydrogen. Looks like I was right: ... CombustionRocketModule 4.00 km/s Fluorine Methane Gimballed Combustion Rocket
UsesCustomName true
Reaction Fluorine Methane
StoichiometricMixtureRatio 1
ThermalRocket
ChamberComposition Diamond
ThroatRadius_m 0.001
ChamberWallThickness_m 0.0006
ChamberContractionRatio 100
NozzleExpansionRatio 1000
NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 10
RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.301
Injector
Composition Polyethylene
PumpRadius_m 0.023
RotationalSpeed_RPM 77
Gimbal
InnerRadius_m 0.034
ArmorComposition Polyethylene
ArmorThickness_m 0.0001
MomentumWheels
Composition Polyethylene
RotationalSpeed_RPM 75000
GimbalAngle_degrees 3
PropellantTankModule 1.00 kg Fluorine Tank NS 1X FMe
UsesCustomName true
Propellant Fluorine
StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel
ReactionMass_kg 1
HeightToRadiusRatio 2.5
AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
ExplosiveModule 250 g Nitrocellulose Flak Bomb 153x1.14
Description
UsesCustomName true
Length_m 0.01
ExplosiveMass_kg 0.075
ExplosiveComposition Nitrocellulose
ShrapnelMass_kg 0.175
ShrapnelComposition Platinum
Detonator
HardRange_km 0.1
ActivationRange_km 0.2
MinimumRange_km 0
OverrideTimer_s 0
TargetsShips true
TargetsShots true
PropellantTankModule 100 g Methane Tank NS 1X FMe
UsesCustomName true
Propellant Methane
StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel
ReactionMass_kg 0.1
HeightToRadiusRatio 1.7
AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
PropellantTankModule 1.27 kg Methane Tank NS 1X FMe Droptank
UsesCustomName true
Propellant Methane
StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel
ReactionMass_kg 1.27
HeightToRadiusRatio 20
AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
External
ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 0.001
ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
PropellantTankModule 9.00 kg Fluorine Tank NS 1X FMe Droptank
UsesCustomName true
Propellant Fluorine
StructureComposition Vanadium Chromium Steel
ReactionMass_kg 9
HeightToRadiusRatio 20
AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
External
ExplosiveBoltMass_kg 0.001
ExplosiveBoltComposition Nitrocellulose
CraftBlueprint NS 1X FMe
Description
Updated version of concretedonkey's NS 1X
Modules
4.00 km/s Fluorine Methane Gimballed Combustion Rocket 1 0 null 0
1.00 kg Fluorine Tank NS 1X FMe 1 0.05923 null 0
Remote Control Narrow 1 0.23692 null 0
10.0 cm x 0 m Spacer 1 0.40566 null 0
250 g Nitrocellulose Flak Bomb 153x1.14 1 0 null 0
100 g Methane Tank NS 1X FMe 1 0 null 0
1.27 kg Methane Tank NS 1X FMe Droptank 2 0.4101 null 1.57
9.00 kg Fluorine Tank NS 1X FMe Droptank 2 0.49295 null 0
Armor
ArmorLayers
Aramid Fiber 0.0005 0 0 1 1
Graphite Aerogel 0.01 0 0 1 1
Aramid Fiber 0.0005 0 0 1 1
Nice  . To be honest hydrogen was a bit experimental in this missile, hell the whole missile was experimental , I prefer larger missiles (20kg min.) |
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Post by David367th on Jul 2, 2017 19:36:30 GMT
Updated to use an armor bug to save on mass/cost Attachments:
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Post by someusername6 on Jul 2, 2017 19:43:24 GMT
I liked concretedonkey 's armor scheme but I thought I could do better if I switched to a more compact fuel than Hydrogen. Looks like I was right: ... Nice . To be honest hydrogen was a bit experimental in this missile, hell the whole missile was experimental , I prefer larger missiles (20kg min.) An unfortunate side effect of using methane instead of hydrogen is that, while it is cheap, it is heavier too -- my submission is over 20 kg. I pretty much deleted all my designs when patch 1.1.2 came out to start clean, so I don't have much of a default for now. But I am hoping we will come up with something on these threads to help decide lasers vs missiles. |
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Post by cyborgleopard on Jul 2, 2017 19:44:58 GMT
hope you don't mind me giving up some armor and acceleration to go even smaller and lighter, and I hope you don't mind me upgrading the design for the third time in two hours ~ also given this is a micro-missile thread, why aren't the weights on the leaderboard?  |
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Post by David367th on Jul 2, 2017 19:49:58 GMT
Update part 2 I used drop tanks to make the thing god awfully ugly, but I quadrupled the armor. Attachments:
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Post by someusername6 on Jul 2, 2017 19:51:53 GMT
~ also given this is a micro-missile thread, why aren't the weights on the leaderboard? Good idea, added. |
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Post by concretedonkey on Jul 2, 2017 20:04:03 GMT
Nice . To be honest hydrogen was a bit experimental in this missile, hell the whole missile was experimental , I prefer larger missiles (20kg min.) An unfortunate side effect of using methane instead of hydrogen is that, while it is cheap, it is heavier too -- my submission is over 20 kg. I pretty much deleted all my designs when patch 1.1.2 came out to start clean, so I don't have much of a default for now. But I am hoping we will come up with something on these threads to help decide lasers vs missiles. my mainstray missile is close to the weight and delta V requirements , however I don't count it as micro and its definetly not cheap: [rant]  droptanks versions get to 17 km/s and 19 km/s.. as to your question lasers vs missiles ... it might surprise you my impression is that lasers, with the current accuracy are not effective missile defense at all, for a single ship. With two or more ships/drones things are a bit different, since you have more angles of attack. I prefer to deploy laser drones but its still a very close thing with high speed interceptions. Missile interceptors are more interesting currently since you can make them really really cheap - no armor at all. Thing is what happens if the missile cloud is mixed with laser drones that fry your interceptor missiles ? Or your attack missiles start to deploy flares in front of them ? Thing is that the AI doesn't adapt to those things and we can't properly test them. For example if it fires droptank missiles it doesn't try to spend them before it enters combat so I can't really test how effective manuvering will be to avoid them. Flare deploying missiles are not counted as missiles so inteceptions are not precise and the AI never uses mixed formations of drones and missiles. Hell it doesn't use two types of missiles in a single salvo too... [/rant] |
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Post by someusername6 on Jul 2, 2017 20:11:44 GMT
my mainstray missile is close to the weight and delta V requirements , however I don't count it as micro and its definetly not cheap: ... Well, it is carrying a nuke within the core game limits. Any particular reason you went with Pentane for propellant? as to your question lasers vs missiles ... it might surprise you my impression is that lasers, with the current accuracy are not effective missile defense at all, for a single ship. With two or more ships/drones things are a bit different, since you have more angles of attack. I prefer to deploy laser drones but its still a very close thing with high speed interceptions. Missile interceptors are more interesting currently since you can make them really really cheap - no armor at all. Thing is what happens if the missile cloud is mixed with laser drones that fry your interceptor missiles ? Or your attack missiles start to deploy flares in front of them ? Thing is that the AI doesn't adapt to those things and we can't properly test them. For example if it fires droptank missiles it doesn't try to spend them before it enters combat so I can't really test how effective manuvering will be to avoid them. Flare deploying missiles are not counted as missiles so inteceptions are not precise and the AI never uses mixed formations of drones and missiles. Hell it doesn't use two types of missiles in a single salvo too... I'll defer to people who spent more time min-maxing laser ships. But I do want to have the missiles to throw at their ships. I agree that there are nicer strategies than just throwing a bunch of missiles of the same type at the enemy. We are kind of stuck with simpler strategies without multiplayer / more AI customization, but there is still design optimization to be done at this stage. |
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Post by concretedonkey on Jul 2, 2017 20:22:22 GMT
Pentane is my current universal fuel since it allowed me reasonable performance in each engine type. Its more compact than methane(gets me better thrust in mpd too) and cheaper than decane. Kind of a middle ground.
As to minmaxing laser ships, not sure what the laser mafia can do about the accuracy. And if its realistic or not... frankly I have no idea.
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Post by morrigi on Jul 2, 2017 20:43:55 GMT
  Rather heavy, but also has more armor. |
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Post by cyborgleopard on Jul 3, 2017 1:18:33 GMT
Got it down to 12.2kg, AND the guidance is working. (I don't remember if I updated the steam workshop or not can somebody please check that.)  |
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Post by underwhelmed on Jul 4, 2017 0:29:18 GMT
My suggestion? Standardize the payload weight and dimensions and protection scheme.
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Post by someusername6 on Jul 4, 2017 1:42:39 GMT
My suggestion? Standardize the payload weight and dimensions and protection scheme. Fair. Do you have a suggested protection scheme / payload weight? Otherwise I might just copy the one from my submission / concretedonkey's. |
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Post by Durandal on Jul 4, 2017 3:10:02 GMT
I tweaked the fuel tank up a little bit to match the dV requirements, but here's a missile I have that should be within OP's specs. Not terribly survivable against high powered lasers on its own, but they make good second and third waves after heavier nuke bombardment. I actually prefer to use a variant with half the dV load as cheap interceptor. Almost all of my ships carry spam cans of them. |
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Post by underwhelmed on Jul 4, 2017 4:08:13 GMT
My suggestion? Standardize the payload weight and dimensions and protection scheme. Fair. Do you have a suggested protection scheme / payload weight? Otherwise I might just copy the one from my submission / concretedonkey's. Well, you already suggested one so you might as well keep using it. Personally, I think something like a 1kg payload is perfectly adequate (maybe even overkill) for a micro-missile. Now that I think about it, it might be a good idea to let allow the contestants to change the dimensions of the payload. |
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. To be honest hydrogen was a bit experimental in this missile, hell the whole missile was experimental , I prefer larger missiles (20kg min.)
