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Post by apophys on Dec 4, 2016 10:32:57 GMT
A barrier (diamond, amorphous carbon, boron nitride, etc.) should be good enough to prevent chemical reactions without affecting heat transfer.
Tantalum in the thermocouple will likely be replaced with osmium. A tungsten-osmium thermocouple coated with diamond should be quite tough.
Pure tungsten may be unlikely, but there must be alloys that are close enough. For example, tungsten-rhenium thermocouples exist where both sides are an alloy of tungsten with rhenium, just at different proportions.
The lack of a safety margin on any ingame designs is a killer for implementation IRL, but you could probably modify them to be fine. Take a 2400K design and drop the output to ~2100K, while putting the extra power gained by that into spinning the turbopumps a little faster.
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Post by tessfield on Dec 4, 2016 17:25:18 GMT
Does anybody know how to read material properties related to radiation shielding?
Particularly, I was trying to figure out if there's a material that has good radiation shielding properties that can be used for crew compartments.
However, since I was at it, I was planning on creating a list/table of these for the Standards thread.
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Post by apophys on Dec 4, 2016 17:48:24 GMT
Does anybody know how to read material properties related to radiation shielding? Particularly, I was trying to figure out if there's a material that has good radiation shielding properties that can be used for crew compartments. However, since I was at it, I was planning on creating a list/table of these for the Standards thread. Testing materials as radiation shields gives a value for fast neutron absorption and thermal neutron absorption. From my limited testing, boron is the best for thermal neutrons, and lithium-6 is best for fast neutrons. However, a minimal lithium shell cannot hold an atmosphere of pressure (and Li-6 is expensive). So I make all my crew compartments out of minimally thick boron (which has other excellent properties: it's cheap and strong). If there's any radiation left to block, a rad shield made of ~4mm of Li-6 just outside of the crew compartment does the job.
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Post by tessfield on Dec 4, 2016 22:59:47 GMT
Yeah, that's also what I do right now as well, I'm trying to figure out if that's the best really. Boron being strong is irrelevant though, at that thickness (1cm?) and either way crew compartments get destroyed very easily; I'm not looking to armor them. I was trying to create the smallest possible crew compartment with a radiation resistant material in order to create a big array of small redundant compartments, preferably as thick and short as possible, for all of them to be unlikely to be shot. Why radiation resistant? Because creating a dozen different sized radiation shields is annoying In any case, I am making tests and compiling a graph for the standards thread for radiation resistant materials. Lithium-6 is several orders of magnitude better than anything else. This are the results for 1m neutron reflector (except for Lithium-6) for the stock 13.5MW reactor: Neutron Reflector | Melting Point | Radiation Hazard | Reactor Weight | Reactor Cost |
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Lithium-6 (25cm) | 454°K | 1.87E-39 W | 7580 kg | 154000 c | Boron Carbide | 3036°K | 1.98E-22 W | 34300 kg | 1400000 c | Boron | 2349°K | 7.42E-21 W | 29400 kg | 502000 c | Diamond | 3823°K | 9.22E-15 W | 45600 kg | 958000 c | Titanium Diboride | 3500°K | 5.12E-13 W | 56800 kg | 1900000 c | Boron Nitride | 3246°K | 1.05E-11 W | 29600 kg | 593000 c | Beryllium | 1560°K | 2.68E-11 W | 26800 kg | 3560000 c |
I've tried out lots of other materials, but these are the best for radiation hazard reduction. I need to come up with two reactors to test out thermal vs fast neutron radiation, though... I wanted to come up with a radiation reduction per m per c value for different materials though... Maybe boron carbide can be used to coat reactors at little cost. Quick question: What's a "Standard" minimum/safe radiation for a reactor to be put right next to a crew compartment? EDIT: Apparently ~3uW makes it safe with a 1cm boron armored crew compartment EDIT2: Aaaaaaaaaaaaa, why are both mixed into the same radiation hazard value?
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Post by tessfield on Dec 5, 2016 1:43:59 GMT
SVG for the winHnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn... yeah, there's nothing new here, Lithium-6 kicks everything's ass. Boron comes next as the first usable in-Reactor Neutron Reflector, though if you go 2500°K+, if you want to use a Neutron Reflector, you should go for Boron Carbide (weight optimized) or Boron Nitride (cost optimized). Let me know if these are wrong and I'll update with more data. EDIT: Editted Standards thread with this info.
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Post by jasonvance on Dec 5, 2016 7:08:38 GMT
I decided to spend some time messing with mini-reactors here is the result: Curious if anyone else has made any mini-reactors would like to compare notes on what they found useful. I am kind of running out of ideas to cut mass outside of lowering outlet and changing the thermocoupler comp. Also if anyone finds a use for this thing or and improvement let me know always curious to see where these designs end up. I kind of gave up using it in a drone when I realized you can't make a radiator small enough to support it efficiently.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 5, 2016 7:10:26 GMT
Also if anyone finds a use for this thing or and improvement let me know always curious to see where these designs end up. I kind of gave up using it in a drone when I realized you can't make a radiator small enough to support it efficiently. I'm having a hard time justifying a reactor smaller than 10KW, personally.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Dec 5, 2016 8:23:25 GMT
Well, I made them even smaller for my superlight gundrones for my gundrone carrier drone that spam over 50 of them to give a spectacular show case of dakka.
200 watt nuclear reactor that weighs as much as a potato is fun.
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Post by jasonvance on Dec 5, 2016 9:05:33 GMT
Well, I made them even smaller for my superlight gundrones for my gundrone carrier drone that spam over 50 of them to give a spectacular show case of dakka. 200 watt nuclear reactor that weighs as much as a potato is fun. Could you post a link I would love to take a look at your reactor I wasn't really sure where to go to get significantly under 149 grams it might give me a few ideas for future reactor builds. Is there some way to reduce the fuel rod mass under 100g? That was my best guess but entering manually a different value defaulted it back up to 100g. Though themocoupler composition was the other best guess.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Dec 5, 2016 9:19:09 GMT
Will post it when I have access to my computer.
But thinking about it, would it be possible to actually decrease the coolant temperature of the super tiny reactor so it could maximise the usage of the smallest, lightest radiators possible without increasing its weight or size?
Actually, now that I ask this, what was the other thermocouple pair viable for lower temperature?
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Post by jasonvance on Dec 5, 2016 9:36:37 GMT
Will post it when I have access to my computer. But thinking about it, would it be possible to actually decrease the coolant temperature of the super tiny reactor so it could maximise the usage of the smallest, lightest radiators possible without increasing its weight or size? Actually, now that I ask this, what was the other thermocouple pair viable for lower temperature? Nickle Chromium Iron / Pyrolytic Carbon is a good combo for lower temp, I did try and lower the temp it brought it up to 3kW from 1kW but i already don't have any mass in turbo pumps. The problem was a 10cm x 10cm radiator no longer provided enough outlet for it at that point so the saved 10 grams didn't end up contributing any.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Dec 5, 2016 13:49:39 GMT
So, seeing as there's spare space with the 0.1 cm square radiator which is the smallest size possible. I decided to lower the coolant temperature of my 250 watt reactor to see if I could use cheaper, lighter radiator for it. Turns out, I can. I got three 250 watt, all having different coolant temperature at 2400k, 1400k, and 900k. First, the 2400k. Which is obviously the base version that can easily be upped for a couple hundreds more watt for just a couple gram if needed. Attachment DeletedOuter Turbo Pump is Lithium, 1 cm, 190 rpm. Then I tried to reduce it for the second pair of thermocouple that can handle high temperature as suggested by jasonvance, nickel Chromium Iron and pyrolytic Carbon Attachment DeletedI also use reinforced carbon carbon for radiator as it's around 10 gram lighter than amourphous carbon radiator but more expensive at around 3 credit. There's still quite a bit of space for raising up the power if needed. Outer Turbo Pump is Lithium, 1 cm, 55 rpm. And then the third one is reduced further for the next viable radiator, magnesium radiator which is as light as reinforced carbon carbon but WAY cheaper at only some 50 mc. However, it has a melting point of around 900K. Attachment DeletedSo I made this, which is practically on the limit and honestly can't be reduced further to be worth it. Outer Turbo Pump is Lithium, 1 cm, 65 rpm. My ultimate goal is to see if I could use lithium radiator for the reactor, but unfortunately that's not going to happen as the number of lithium radiator required for such reactor design was too much and too heavy. Yes, all these designs only save GRAMS in weight. But when my drone weigh barely 5 to 6 kg, every gram matters when there's 50 of them in a single carrier drone. Anyway, that's all for my super micro reactor design.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 5, 2016 18:39:52 GMT
Lol... My carrier drones all weigh 455t and have 7.6 km/s
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Post by thorneel on Dec 5, 2016 21:37:51 GMT
With 900K for the radiator, put some lithium-6 around the last one and you have a space-suit-rated nuclear generator. There is probably a healthy market to be found among Belters for it.
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Post by coaxjack on Dec 5, 2016 21:55:18 GMT
With 900K for the radiator, put some lithium-6 around the last one and you have a space-suit-rated nuclear generator. There is probably a healthy market to be found among Belters for it. The welders among them will go nuts for it.
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