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Post by srbrant on Jun 14, 2017 0:55:05 GMT
... In a CoaDE scenario with our sardine cans in space though, it'd be like trying to board a submarine. A submarine with hypervelocity railguns, nukes, and/or gigawatt-range lasers that is quite happy to pop you from a million meters away. Or like trying to board a jet fighter engaged in long range missile combat. Hence my story's problem solving for boarding.
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 14, 2017 4:34:41 GMT
ah, but in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, Imperial Macrocannons have a 6km range Typical problem with the "everything is canon" doctrine of GW. The books regularly reference combat happening at reasonable ranges. also all the canon is small enough to fire out a cannon
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Post by thorneel on Jun 14, 2017 20:08:37 GMT
ah, but in Battlefleet Gothic: Armada, Imperial Macrocannons have a 6km range Typical problem with the "everything is canon" doctrine of GW. The books regularly reference combat happening at reasonable ranges. The one explanation my friends found to match the outrageously ridiculous/incoherent/inefficient/absurd crazyness of W40K among factions, editions, books and writers is that most of what is "known" is actually thick, military-grade disinformation. 1000 Space Marines per chapter for the entire galactic Imperium, said 1000 Space Marines holding an Antarctica-sized fortress against an entire swarm who has orbital control, a half-billion people army for an entire sector in mass-attrition warfare... The Imperium doesn't care if you believe it or not. They only want to hide what are their actual forces, composition, concentrations and losses. And at this level, Sun Tzu would be proud.
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Post by srbrant on Jun 14, 2017 22:42:42 GMT
In my story, there are several justifications for boarding actions:
- The ship could/does contain valuable treasures, artwork, intelligence, cargo, technology and people (for better or worse). - To reduce the problem of Kessler Syndrome. - The "flare" from a destroyed fusion reactor could provoke an unwanted conflict. - If it is a pirate ship, there could be treasures, resources, slaves or hostages to be recovered. - Capturing an enemy ship can swell the strength of one's fleet and save tremendous amounts of money, time and resources in fleet management. - If a wanted criminal is onboard the enemy ship and the heroes need proof-of-kill to collect the bounty. - Salvage rights. - Thrills.
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Post by apophys on Jun 15, 2017 9:13:10 GMT
In my story, there are several justifications for boarding actions: - The ship could/does contain valuable treasures, artwork, intelligence, cargo, technology and people (for better or worse). - To reduce the problem of Kessler Syndrome. - The "flare" from a destroyed fusion reactor could provoke an unwanted conflict. - If it is a pirate ship, there could be treasures, resources, slaves or hostages to be recovered. - Capturing an enemy ship can swell the strength of one's fleet and save tremendous amounts of money, time and resources in fleet management. - If a wanted criminal is onboard the enemy ship and the heroes need proof-of-kill to collect the bounty. - Salvage rights. - Thrills. Except for the last one (which is suicidal), these are great reasons to offer surrender to the enemy crew when the enemy is outmatched, and a reputation for good treatment of prisoners makes it more likely that they will take the offer. Still doesn't make boarding a combat tactic, still doesn't justify humans boarding rather than drones, and still doesn't prevent them from blowing themselves up if they choose to.
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Post by srbrant on Jun 15, 2017 14:12:10 GMT
In my story, there are several justifications for boarding actions: - The ship could/does contain valuable treasures, artwork, intelligence, cargo, technology and people (for better or worse). - To reduce the problem of Kessler Syndrome. - The "flare" from a destroyed fusion reactor could provoke an unwanted conflict. - If it is a pirate ship, there could be treasures, resources, slaves or hostages to be recovered. - Capturing an enemy ship can swell the strength of one's fleet and save tremendous amounts of money, time and resources in fleet management. - If a wanted criminal is onboard the enemy ship and the heroes need proof-of-kill to collect the bounty. - Salvage rights. - Thrills. Except for the last one (which is suicidal), these are great reasons to offer surrender to the enemy crew when the enemy is outmatched, and a reputation for good treatment of prisoners makes it more likely that they will take the offer. Still doesn't make boarding a combat tactic, still doesn't justify humans boarding rather than drones, and still doesn't prevent them from blowing themselves up if they choose to. As much as it makes me cringe to say it, sometimes you just have to say "screw it" when writing fiction. At least it's believable though, right?
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 15, 2017 14:39:30 GMT
Except for the last one (which is suicidal), these are great reasons to offer surrender to the enemy crew when the enemy is outmatched, and a reputation for good treatment of prisoners makes it more likely that they will take the offer. Still doesn't make boarding a combat tactic, still doesn't justify humans boarding rather than drones, and still doesn't prevent them from blowing themselves up if they choose to. As much as it makes me cringe to say it, sometimes you just have to say "screw it" when writing fiction. At least it's believable though, right? not really, no. there is the issue of the crew being boarded saying "screw it" and popping their fusion reactor or thermonuclear bomb
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Post by ross128 on Jun 15, 2017 15:02:19 GMT
Well, technically you can't "pop" a fusion reactor. At least, not in a "nuclear explosion" sense. It would fizzle the instant containment failed, because the reaction requires a huge amount of pressure to maintain itself.
Although you would have a bundle of high-pressure gas that is no longer being kept pressurized, so it probably could do a fairly decent imitation of a conventional explosive. And of course, when you're already toting nuclear warheads around, it's not hard to save one for yourself.
So even bypassing or handwaving the difficulty of actually getting on board, you'd also need to create a delicate balancing act where a self-destruct is unacceptable, but surrender is not acceptable either, and so for some reason the only option left open to the defending crew is to fight hand-to-hand.
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Post by Pttg on Jun 15, 2017 22:21:51 GMT
Whenever reinforcements might arrive soon, and your ship has lost power. If there's a reason not to destroy your ship (such as that you are carrying hostages), then boarders would have to take your ship carefully and quickly.
Then you light upthe oxygen candles and prepare to repel boarders.
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Post by apophys on Jun 16, 2017 11:19:50 GMT
So even bypassing or handwaving the difficulty of actually getting on board, you'd also need to create a delicate balancing act where a self-destruct is unacceptable, but surrender is not acceptable either, and so for some reason the only option left open to the defending crew is to fight hand-to-hand. The defenders may have no other option, but the attackers certainly do, and boarding is a sub-optimal choice for them. The attacking ship doesn't have to humor the defenders by willingly giving up the advantage they gained from winning the ship-based encounter. If time is not short, they can dismantle the disabled ship from the outside (for example, using combat lasers), then take what they need. This shouldn't take too long, really. If time is short, they can simply hook up the whole disabled ship with cables and drag it away to a location where time is not short.
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Post by srbrant on Jun 20, 2017 6:05:35 GMT
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 20, 2017 14:45:11 GMT
why do you have escape pods? they are useless, you might as well use their mass for Re-mass or life support
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Post by srbrant on Jun 20, 2017 15:01:15 GMT
why do you have escape pods? they are useless, you might as well use their mass for Re-mass or life support This is in a setting where remass efficiency has made incredible leaps and bounds, so mass isn't as big an issue (still an issue, though). The escape pods are for the following reasons: - Hopelessly outmanned during a boarding action - The radiators are damaged to the point where heat is projected to rise to extreme levels - Ship has been damaged beyond repair - Life support systems have been damaged beyond repair - Incoming projectile has locked onto the ship and has been calculated to utterly savage the vessel
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Post by Enderminion on Jun 20, 2017 15:11:20 GMT
why do you have escape pods? they are useless, you might as well use their mass for Re-mass or life support This is in a setting where remass efficiency has made incredible leaps and bounds, so mass isn't as big an issue (still an issue, though). The escape pods are for the following reasons: - Hopelessly outmanned during a boarding action Dead men tell no tales, escape pods are shot down when launched- The radiators are damaged to the point where heat is projected to rise to extreme levels true, but the cores can be SCRAMED and ejected- Ship has been damaged beyond repair more life support gear with the main ship- Life support systems have been damaged beyond repair not enough life support in the pods to last till rescue in most cases- Incoming projectile has locked onto the ship and has been calculated to utterly savage the vessel again the pods will be targeted by really bad pirates
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Post by treptoplax on Jun 20, 2017 20:21:04 GMT
This is in a setting where remass efficiency has made incredible leaps and bounds, so mass isn't as big an issue (still an issue, though). The escape pods are for the following reasons: - Hopelessly outmanned during a boarding action Dead men tell no tales, escape pods are shot down when launched- The radiators are damaged to the point where heat is projected to rise to extreme levels true, but the cores can be SCRAMED and ejected- Ship has been damaged beyond repair more life support gear with the main ship- Life support systems have been damaged beyond repair not enough life support in the pods to last till rescue in most cases- Incoming projectile has locked onto the ship and has been calculated to utterly savage the vessel again the pods will be targeted by really bad piratesEscape pods that are designed for prompt re-entry into a habitable planet's atmosphere seem plausible, if a bit specialized. I can imagine lifeboats with a couple Km/s deltaV and a couple weeks life support making sense for certain damage scenarios (loss of atmosphere/life-support in main pressurized compartment, or maybe radiation shield compromise if their reactors look anything like the CDE ones , especially for, say space stations in a friendly area with other significant assets of some kind nearby.
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