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Post by Easy on Feb 1, 2017 18:48:48 GMT
With the potential expansion of combat to multiple systems and the transfers between them, mass limitation becomes redundant and either self mobile or supported fleets could be made within a costed only limitation. There are advantages to small combat vessels boosted into the target system over the much larger fully mobile ship, but there are also downsides to single use droptanks/stages and to large and vulnerable tankers, and protection and recovery of these could be difficult for some strategic situations. Unless the warship has a cruise engine you could keep the warship mostly empty for its primary burn and then have a precisely measured fuel efficient tanker join and fill the externally tanked warships for the mission remainder, then the near empty tanker can disengage to wherever, if the tanker were a drone the time horizon can be quite far. In the end I think external tanks are a godsend for warships to make their maneuvers before combat encounter. In peacetime or unlikely encounter, external tanks can be retained for reuse. Tank jettison would be weighed delta v loss against the need for higher acceleration and danger of ruptures in combat. |
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Post by ross128 on Feb 1, 2017 18:59:24 GMT
External tanks are definitely nice for siloships and drone carriers, because they don't have to be inside the armor. More of the internal volume can be dedicated to bulky ordinance, and the ship can have a relatively small internal tank to get away after it's done launching. It can start with 10km/s of dV, do some maneuvers, launch all its ordinance, drop its tanks, and then still have 10km/s of dV when it's done because it lost so much weight.
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 2, 2017 15:08:10 GMT
It has come time to admit I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm refining and I'm only at one tenth of the mass and nowhere near the credit cost either. Hey man. It looks cool. It doesn't matter if an minmaxed design can kill a hundred strong fleet of your ships if it looks freaking amazing ala tukuro 's designs. |
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 5, 2017 1:48:13 GMT
With credit, deference, and apologies to apophys and newageofpower , after their thread on broken needleguns, here is a submission for this battle -- pretty much just apophys' gladiator equipped with the cheesy gun I put on that thread.  Mind the custom modules, including the repeated ones from apophys' submission: RadiationShieldModule Pill
UsesCustomName true
Composition Lithium
Dimensions_m 0.001 0.001
RadiationShieldModule 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield
UsesCustomName false
Composition Lithium-6
Dimensions_m 2.5 0.004
SpacerModule 49.9 m x 0 m Spacer
UsesCustomName false
Dimensions_m 0 49.9
CraftBlueprint Pill
Modules
Pill 1 0 null 0
49.9 m x 0 m Spacer 1 0.002 null 0
Armor
RailgunModule 1.000 GW Pill Railgun
UsesCustomName true
PowerConsumption_W 1e+009
Rails
Composition Beryllium
Thickness_m 0.44
Length_m 50
BarrelArmorThickness_m 0.005
Armature
Composition Osmium
BoreRadius_m 0.0041
Mass_kg 0.001
Tracer null
Payload Pill
Loader
PowerConsumption_W 67000
Turret
InnerRadius_m 0.8
ArmorComposition Diamond
ArmorThickness_m 0.2
MomentumWheels
Composition Osmium
RotationalSpeed_RPM 3400
TargetsShips true
TargetsShots true
AmmoModule 10000x Pill
UsesCustomName false
SuppliedModule 1.000 GW Pill Railgun
AmmoBay
Capacity 10000
Stacks 1
ArmorComposition Graphite Aerogel
ArmorThickness_m 0.005
RadiatorModule 10x50 Boron Nitride Radiator
UsesCustomName false
Composition Boron Nitride
PanelWidth_m 0.5
Height_m 50
Thickness_m 0.001
ArmorThickness_m 0.001
Panels 20
SurfaceFinish Diamond
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 1.01 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor A
UsesCustomName true
ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.1 0.1
NuclearReactor
Coolant Sodium
Moderator Diamond
ModeratorMass_kg 3
Fuel U-233 Dioxide
FuelMass_kg 9
FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.93
ControlRodComposition U-233 Dioxide
ControlRodMass_kg 13
NeutronReflector Boron Nitride
ReflectorThickness_m 0.565
AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 2.2e+020
InnerTurbopump
Composition Amorphous Carbon
PumpRadius_m 0.8
RotationalSpeed_RPM 540
ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 3 8.8
Thermocouple
PTypeComposition Osmium
NTypeComposition Tungsten
Length_m 0.001
ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2400
OuterCoolant Sodium
OuterTurbopump
Composition Calcium
PumpRadius_m 0.45
RotationalSpeed_RPM 530
NuclearThermalRocketModule 5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket
UsesCustomName false
ReactorCoreHeight_m 0.28
NuclearReactor
Coolant Decane
Moderator Diamond
ModeratorMass_kg 0
Fuel U-233 Dioxide
FuelMass_kg 16
FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.96
ControlRodComposition U-233 Dioxide
ControlRodMass_kg 23
NeutronReflector Boron Nitride
ReflectorThickness_m 0.6
AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 2.3e+020
ThermalRocket
ChamberComposition Diamond
ThroatRadius_m 0.026
ChamberWallThickness_m 0.032
ChamberContractionRatio 6
NozzleExpansionRatio 98
NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 7
RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.5
Injector
Composition Potassium
PumpRadius_m 0.43
RotationalSpeed_RPM 390
Gimbal
InnerRadius_m 0.61
ArmorComposition Graphite Aerogel
ArmorThickness_m 0.6
MomentumWheels
Composition Vanadium Chromium Steel
RotationalSpeed_RPM 14000
GimbalAngle_degrees 20
MagnetoplasmadynamicThrusterModule 47.8 km/s 1.00 GW Decane MPD
UsesCustomName true
CathodeRadius_m 0.016
ChamberThickness_m 0.027
AnodeThickness_m 0.001
ThrusterLength_m 0.044
CathodeComposition Potassium
AnodeComposition Depleted Uranium
InsulatorComposition Polyethylene
Propellant Decane
Current_A 1.5e+005
Injector
Composition Lithium
PumpRadius_m 0.045
RotationalSpeed_RPM 160
Gimbal
InnerRadius_m 0.065
ArmorComposition Silica Aerogel
ArmorThickness_m 0.062
MomentumWheels
Composition Calcium
RotationalSpeed_RPM 34000
GimbalAngle_degrees 90
PropellantTankModule 100 t Decane Tank
UsesCustomName false
Propellant Decane
StructureComposition Boron
ReactionMass_kg 1e+005
HeightToRadiusRatio 13
AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
CrewModule 15 Crew Module
UsesCustomName false
CrewCapacity 15
Decks 5
StructureMaterial Polyethylene
ShellThickness_m 0.01
RadiatorModule 1x10 Boron Radiator
UsesCustomName false
Composition Boron
PanelWidth_m 0.5
Height_m 10
Thickness_m 0.001
ArmorThickness_m 0.001
Panels 2
SurfaceFinish Diamond
RadiatorModule 10x50 Boron Nitride Radiator
UsesCustomName false
Composition Boron Nitride
PanelWidth_m 0.5
Height_m 50
Thickness_m 0.001
ArmorThickness_m 0.001
Panels 20
SurfaceFinish Diamond
CraftBlueprint Gladiator Pill
Modules
15 Crew Module 3 -0.77735 null 0
1.000 GW Pill Railgun 1 98.15 null 0
1.01 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor A 1 -0.40625 null 0
5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 27.922 null 0
47.8 km/s 1.00 GW Decane MPD 1 0 null 0
5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield 1 -0.73096 null 0
100 t Decane Tank 7 -0.68457 null 0
1x10 Boron Radiator 6 94.24 15 Crew Module 0.02
5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 31.457 null 0
5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 24.493 null 0
10x50 Boron Nitride Radiator 3 12.473 1.01 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor A 1.04
10000x Pill 20 98.15 null 0
10x50 Boron Nitride Radiator 3 63.429 1.01 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor A 1.04
Armor
ArmorLayers
Amorphous Carbon 0.0015 0.01 0.001 1 1
Osmium 0.001 0 0.001 1 1
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Post by apophys on Feb 5, 2017 8:43:52 GMT
someusername6The side thrusters were placed to point from the center of mass. You might need to move them to get the same silly dodging ability. (haven't tested it yet)
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 5, 2017 15:33:26 GMT
someusername6 The side thrusters were placed to point from the center of mass. You might need to move them to get the same silly dodging ability. (haven't tested it yet) I thought I did it -- at least dragging the thrusters so the middle one is centered on the white line -- but it still has a bit of trouble getting on target for the first half a minute or so. Not a problem, given that the range is so ridiculously large, but it is still a bit embarrassing to watch. Any idea about what might cause that? |
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Post by Enderminion on Feb 5, 2017 17:55:53 GMT
For turning you would want thrusters to be as far from the CoM as possible
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Post by bdcarrillo on Feb 9, 2017 14:06:57 GMT
For turning you would want thrusters to be as far from the CoM as possible quite right, however thrusters pointed at the CG make for a ship that can dodge well (aka the Gladiator). Confuses the crap out of gunners who can't seem to lead it. |
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Post by The Astronomer on Feb 11, 2017 6:44:44 GMT
"NO LASER, NO MISSILE"
Well, my ships don't really use kinetics as main weapons. They are just unoptimized needle guns back-up weapons for fun and stuffs.
In the other words, I don't even have any ship that qualifies.
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Post by someusername6 on Feb 11, 2017 17:22:23 GMT
"NO LASER, NO MISSILE" Well, my ships don't really use kinetics as main weapons. They are just unoptimized needle guns back-up weapons for fun and stuffs. In the other words, I don't even have any ship that qualifies. I think no one does; the idea is to build a new ship for this "performance". |
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Post by wazzledazzle on Feb 16, 2017 19:21:12 GMT
I think no one does; the idea is to build a new ship for this "performance". I might have a couple actually, from older versions where kinetics were still relevant. Gave them a little patching for this contest, but I don't know what they're worth. Here we go! Pegasus-class Skirmisher  The idea behind the Pegasus-class was to have a tough nose with front-firing 11mm railguns. Ideally the nose should absorb weapon fire more effectively than heavy, all-round armor. It also has a few 60mm cannons for close-range work. SK-240 Scorpion-class frigate  Here's a more "pocket-sized" ship. The "SK" in the name stands for "Spinal, Kinetic". It's built around a relatively long-ranged coilgun. Once ships get too close, it swings to present an angled armor plate that masks the whole craft, radiators included. There's also a couple 11mm for backup. Bear in mind, those designs are pretty old! There's probably a lot that could be optimised. But I'm looking forward to other designs in this thread. Kinetics vs kinetics is pretty fun, as the stock ships can show. Here are the codes:
Pegasus
CraftBlueprint Pegasus Skirmisher
Modules
1.000 kt Methane Tank 1 0 null 0
30 Crew Module 1 -0.125 null 0
30 Crew Module 1 -0.25 null 0
600 t Methane Tank 3 -0.75 null 0
13.5 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 -0.875 null 0
6.18 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 7 0 null 0
14.0 m Diameter 6.00 cm Radiation Shield 1 -0.8125 null 0
4x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 5 10.981 13.5 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0
13.0 MW 11mm Turreted Railgun 4 136.46 null 0
10.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 124.49 null 0
2x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 2 88.397 30 Crew Module 0
60mm Turreted Cannon 3 62.367 null 0
60mm Turreted Cannon 3 99.542 null 0
60mm Turreted Cannon 3 121.78 null 0
60mm Turreted Cannon 3 75.523 null 0
300 t Methane Drop Tank 5 34.365 null 0
Armor
ArmorLayers
Reinforced Carbon-Carbon 0.3 0 0.7 1 1
Boron Carbide 0.04 0.2 0 1 1
Aluminum 0.008 0.75 0 1 1
Tungsten 0.0005 0 0.844 0.88 1
Constantan 0.0005 0 0.905 0.94 1
Scorpion
CraftBlueprint SK-240 FF Scorpion
Modules
13.5 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 41.637 null 0
300 t Methane Tank 5 7.1498 null 0
20 Crew Module 2 2.0709 null 0
7.00 m Diameter 10.0 cm Radiation Shield 1 4.6104 null 0
13.0 MW 220mm Coilgun 1 0 null 0
6.18 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 34.133 null 0
10.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 59.793 null 0
632 m/s 13.2 MW Methane Gimballed Resistojet 3 8.1092 null 0
6x3 Aluminum Radiator 3 13.657 20 Crew Module 0.01
4x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 3 30.744 13.5 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1.01
10x3 Silicon Nitride Radiator 3 16.867 13.5 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0.01
10.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 0.53547 null 0
0 m x 10.0 m Spacer 10 24.393 null 0
10.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 60.793 null 0
10.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 60.793 null 0
10.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 61.793 null 0
13.0 MW 11mm Turreted Railgun 2 32.482 null 1.57
632 m/s 13.2 MW Methane Gimballed Resistojet 3 3.4605 null 0
Armor
ArmorLayers
Reinforced Carbon-Carbon 0.07 0 0.485 1 1
Aluminum 0.007 0.9 0.495 1 1
Constantan 0.0005 0 0.87 0.92 0.999
Bismuth 0.0005 0 0.805 0.85 0.999
220mm coilgun for the Scorpion
CoilgunModule 13.0 MW 220mm Coilgun
UsesCustomName false
PowerConsumption_W 1.3e+007
Coil
Composition Aluminum Copper Lithium
WireRadius_m 0.089
NumberOfTurns 3
NumberOfLayers 7
NumberOfStages 34
BarrelArmorThickness_m 0.01
Armature
Composition Iron
BoreRadius_m 0.11
Mass_kg 5
Tracer Sulfur
Payload null
Loader
PowerConsumption_W 75000
AttachedAmmoBay
Capacity 2000
Stacks 6
TargetsShips true
TargetsShots false
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Post by Easy on Feb 16, 2017 20:20:53 GMT
Test conditions: - Vesta Overkill Preset
- Easy Fleet: 1x FA Pursuer (8.4kt, 269 MC)
- WazzleDazzle Fleet 1: 2x Pegusus Skirmisher (14.2kt, 263Mc)
- WazzleDazzle Fleet 2: 5x SK-240 FF Scorpion (13.2kt, 259Mc)
- AI Agressive for both fleets
FA Pursuer Notes: - Loss of external tank can lead to pitching and improper attitude
- Disarmed from lack radiators rather than module loss
- Likes to point the wrong way for no reason
- Good armor and nose on slope
- Loss of external tank leads to pitching, improper attitude leads to armor penetration and destruction
- 11mm railguns lack armor penetration
- Outranged by 8mm railguns
 - Partial armor leads to quick destruction
- AI likes to tumble, spinal coilgun gets few chances to fire
- Range advantage over FA Pursuer is minor
I'd like to give the Scorpion a better chance, but it just doesn't manage to live long enough due to the lack of armor. |
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Post by bdcarrillo on Feb 16, 2017 20:21:51 GMT
Those are some sharp looking designs!
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Post by wazzledazzle on Feb 16, 2017 22:23:37 GMT
- Good armor and nose on slope
- Loss of external tank leads to pitching, improper attitude leads to armor penetration and destruction
- 11mm railguns lack armor penetration
- Outranged by 8mm railguns
- Partial armor leads to quick destruction
- AI likes to tumble, spinal coilgun gets few chances to fire
- Range advantage over FA Pursuer is minor
I'd like to give the Scorpion a better chance, but it just doesn't manage to live long enough due to the lack of armor. Ha, that went about as well as I expected it to. That Pursuer is great looking. The Pegasus tumbling was something I noticed early on. I tried adding more mass towards the nose to avoid the CoM being so far back but it apparently wasn't enough. The Scorpion had a similar problem, the early versions were a LOT smaller (and thus had a more noticeable range advantage, because of the very low cross-section), but that made them so light a single impact would send them spinning. Thinking about it again, I probably should try a smaller Scorpion again. The added armor probably isn't worth the increased cross-section. That should make the coilgun a tad more effective. Or hell, even get rid of the armor and make them as small as possible for added effective range advantage. That 8mm railgun is serious, though. The range is very nice. |
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Post by Easy on Feb 16, 2017 22:38:07 GMT
Ha, that went about as well as I expected it to. That Pursuer is great looking. The Pegasus tumbling was something I noticed early on. I tried adding more mass towards the nose to avoid the CoM being so far back but it apparently wasn't enough. The Scorpion had a similar problem, the early versions were a LOT smaller (and thus had a more noticeable range advantage, because of the very low cross-section), but that made them so light a single impact would send them spinning. Thinking about it again, I probably should try a smaller Scorpion again. The added armor probably isn't worth the increased cross-section. That should make the coilgun a tad more effective. Or hell, even get rid of the armor and make them as small as possible for added effective range advantage. That 8mm railgun is serious, though. The range is very nice. I look forward to your upgrades mopping the floor with the Pursuer. It is designed to be a bit of a zombie with thick armor and redundant modules. At least until it decides to flash radiators. The Pegasus mostly just needs a firepower upgrade. Part of me wonders if power concerns are telling the ship to switch to the 60mm Cannon when given a broadside order. The Pursuer gets low power when it tries to fire and rotate everything simultaneously. Loss of radiators can cause low power. Will experiment later. |
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