golol
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by golol on Jan 29, 2017 13:52:26 GMT
This is the third time I'm making this thread because I keep accidently closing the tab... If I haven't made some major oversight, I don't see what's stopping us from sharing designs and battling it out!This is not about finding out what realistic space warfare would be like, this is interplanetary jousting. Rulesthere are no rules for the way battles are fought yetAI vs AI isn't optimal because the AI can be retarded (not shoot when out of range, fail to align broadside) just play both ships a couple of times, try your best and post the results!Categories:
Link to document for custom categories and rulesetsIF ANYONE MESSES THIS DOCUMENT UP I WILL FIND OUT WHERE YOU LIVE, BREAK IN AND DELETE YOUR CDE FOLDER
How to play
go to Users\YourName\AppData\Roaming\CDE open UserDesigns.txtseek out your ship's information and paste it into a new .txtseek out all custom modules that are used and paste their information into the new documentI think modules go to the top and ships to the bottom. But I don't know all the issues that might arise yet upload the file heredownload others' designs and import them into your UserDesigns.txthave fun!Champions:
Right now it is hard to determine if a ship is better or not because it might turn out that the ship which the player is currently controlling always wins. The champions won't be rigurously selected for now. If a ship kicks ass it will be obvious. If things are unclear we can just list several ships . Later on we might intdoruce more categories and regulate the whole process. Let's see how this works out.
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 29, 2017 15:24:55 GMT
Prepare for laser domination. I'm in.
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golol
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by golol on Jan 29, 2017 16:16:03 GMT
ehm... now how do I say this.. I kind of want to not allow lasers for now. Atleast in the current mode. I think they're kinda boring compared to kinetic weapons. They don't look cool, aren't as satisfying and don't offer a lot of variety. I mean I can still change it if it's a total bummer but I would prefer it this way. The constraints should result in cool battles and I think it's okay to have constraints that rule out like 75% of weapons systems because the less is allowed the more unlikely it seems to me that we get situations where ships counter others. If we have A beats B, B beats C and C beats A we can't say which one is the best. But when only using kinetic weapons there aren't many fighting styles that could counter eachother so it seemed like a good idea to me.
Edit: to elaborate, people often discuss the quetion of missiles vs lasers vs micro drones vs railguns vs coilguns etc. etc. I don't intend to answer this question with this thread though. I just want a little bit of contest and "building with a clear goal" and I assumed that there aren't many people who only enjoy designing one kind of weapon type.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Jan 29, 2017 18:41:47 GMT
Oooo I like this one! I do think needleguns will reign supreme. Perhaps a conventional cannon only class? A proper slugging match like ships of the line... Coming soon, in the featherweight class, my entry, the Pokey Bit. Less than half the mass and one quarter the cost of the reigning champ, the River Class Frigate. Capable of reaching out to 500 KM and coring the champion, this little guy can tank quite a few rounds from the champ as well. AI/AI testing showed a 100% success rate for the Pokey Bit, even with it's range advantage nullified by turning off the main gun and getting pummeled on for a bit! Shoutout to the reactor thread for the reactor, and a board member who posted an "ultra kill everything" needlegun that I trimmed down. Efficiency is less than 100% per weapon checker. Radiators are redundant, and stock, as well as the crew compartment being stock. The only optimization was in the armor (which took some R&D and many sims). All other parts are off the shelf from Engineering Assistance. EDIT-- Needlegun payload error fixed
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 477 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor UsesCustomName false ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.39 0.15 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-235 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 334 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.059 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 86 NeutronReflector Boron Nitride ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 4.9e+019 InnerTurbopump Composition Diamond PumpRadius_m 0.56 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1600 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 4.1 3.5 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tungsten NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2500 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Boron PumpRadius_m 0.58 RotationalSpeed_RPM 600
ResistojetModule 6.00 km/s 50 MW Decane Resistojet 1.18MN UsesCustomName true PowerSupplied_W 5e+007 Propellant Decane CoilComposition Tantalum Hafnium Carbide ChamberLength_m 0.023 CoilRadius_m 0.0001 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Boron ThroatRadius_m 0.088 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.00039 ChamberContractionRatio 2.8 NozzleExpansionRatio 4.8 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 6.7 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.163 Injector Composition Calcium PumpRadius_m 0.15 RotationalSpeed_RPM 1000 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.22 ArmorComposition Aluminum ArmorThickness_m 0.0001 MomentumWheels Composition Lithium RotationalSpeed_RPM 2300 GimbalAngle_degrees 90
RailgunModule 470 MW Needle Turreted Railgun UsesCustomName true PowerConsumption_W 3.6e+008 Rails Composition Aluminum Zinc Magnesium Thickness_m 0.39 Length_m 15 BarrelArmorThickness_m 0 Armature Composition Osmium BoreRadius_m 0.0025 Mass_kg 0.001 Tracer null Payload 302mg Li Penetrator Loader PowerConsumption_W 1.2e+006 Turret InnerRadius_m 1.1 ArmorComposition Aluminum Zinc Magnesium ArmorThickness_m 0.2 MomentumWheels Composition Selenium RotationalSpeed_RPM 3700 AttachedAmmoBay Capacity 10000 Stacks 1 TargetsShips true TargetsShots false
CraftBlueprint Pokey Bit Modules 1.000 kt Decane Tank 2 1 27.375 null 0 35 Crew Module 1 27.625 null 0 10.2 m Diameter 6.00 mm Radiation Shield 1 27.321 null 0 10x3 Silicon Nitride Radiator 3 21.666 35 Crew Module 0 477 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 27.267 null 0 470 MW Needle Turreted Railgun 1 82.382 null 4.71 6.00 km/s 50 MW Decane Resistojet 1.18MN 9 0 null 0.78 30x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 3 4.6511 477 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 30x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 3 15.143 477 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 1.000 kt Decane Tank 2 1 28.375 null 0 10.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 81.524 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Para-Aramid Fiber 0.01 0 0 1 1 Silica Aerogel 0.1 0 0 1 1 Silicon Carbide 0.08 0.1 0 1 1 Aluminum Zinc Magnesium 0.1 0 0 1 1 PropellantTankModule 1.000 kt Decane Tank 2 UsesCustomName false Propellant Decane StructureComposition UHMWPE ReactionMass_kg 1e+006 HeightToRadiusRatio 3.2 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
RadiationShieldModule 10.2 m Diameter 6.00 mm Radiation Shield UsesCustomName false Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 5.11 0.006
RadiationShieldModule Lithium Penetrator UsesCustomName true Composition Lithium Dimensions_m 0.001 0.18
CraftBlueprint 302mg Li Penetrator Modules Lithium Penetrator 1 0 null 0 Armor
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golol
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by golol on Jan 30, 2017 17:31:25 GMT
I see I see... we're getting straight to the real stuff... Can you upload the spacecraft's and modules' information from UserDesign.txt here? I've got some ideas but I want to test some things before I commit something against this . To be honest I won't be able to get that mass efficiency because I only use one reactor I am really proud of that I managed to create without looking in the forum ^^. It's an improvement over stock reactors but nothing compared to the best that's possible.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Jan 30, 2017 22:00:44 GMT
I see I see... we're getting straight to the real stuff... Can you upload the spacecraft's and modules' information from UserDesign.txt here? I've got some ideas but I want to test some things before I commit something against this . To be honest I won't be able to get that mass efficiency because I only use one reactor I am really proud of that I managed to create without looking in the forum ^^. It's an improvement over stock reactors but nothing compared to the best that's possible. Data added above. It's fun to turn off the needle gun and see how the 7mm railgun sends my Pokey Bit tumbling.
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Post by lieste on Jan 31, 2017 0:06:22 GMT
That needle gun looks to be another broken design. Without the needle the barrel catastrophically fails both from beam deflection (53.4Gpa vs 680MPa) and ruptures. I cannot see how adding more mass to the armature assembly would improve this situation.
I'd suggest having a requirement that needle guns (and payload throwers) be able to fire a 'naked' armature of at least their armature mass before they be permitted.
Also, for capacitor efficiency the maximum that can be achieved is 50%, so this seems a reasonable upper limit for rail/coil gun efficiency targets, rather than 100%.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Jan 31, 2017 2:11:36 GMT
That needle gun looks to be another broken design. Without the needle the barrel catastrophically fails both from beam deflection (53.4Gpa vs 680MPa) and ruptures. I cannot see how adding more mass to the armature assembly would improve this situation. I'd suggest having a requirement that needle guns (and payload throwers) be able to fire a 'naked' armature of at least their armature mass before they be permitted. Also, for capacitor efficiency the maximum that can be achieved is 50%, so this seems a reasonable upper limit for rail/coil gun efficiency targets, rather than 100%. Good catch on that... Will need to look into it. You assume it uses capacitors and should be limited to a 50% duty cycle, but with adequate power we can continuously power the rails and keep them energized. The need for capacitors would only arise if you couldn't supply sufficient juice. With capacitors I could, in theory, power a 100 mw gun with a 25 mw reactor at 25% duty cycle. --EDIT-- I was wrong, math below
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Post by lieste on Jan 31, 2017 2:50:41 GMT
A railgun rapidly discharges a large amount of electrical work into the armature. This is at least as much as the KE imparted to the projectile, and can only act on the armature during the acceleration along the rail.
I think that most of the EM guns use far less power in the rail/solenoid than would actually be required to continuously power the rail to obtain the KE values we see*. Only power applied over the duration of the acceleration (which drops with higher velocity, but increases with length) can act on the armature. In order to deliver more power to the shot the charge needs to be stored before the shot start, and capacitors have to operate at less than 50% efficiency by their charging integral.
In addition, the sum of all KE over a second must be less than the usable power - with the reasonable assumption of capacitors this is less than a 50% overall efficiency. (I'd argue that a dummy mass of 1kg per 360J of shot KE should also be added to deal with the low solenoid power coils which are currently potentially very light and have none of the extremely high power requirements per shot they would have IRL).
Using a very simple (and not at all rigorous) linear acceleration to sanity check the power requirement/acceleration to V0 relationship... Work requirement/power supplied during the passage in barrel for the stock weapons is around: 200kw railgun 129:1 13MW railgun 1.6:1 39MW railgun 6.5:1 200kw coilgun 499:1 1MW coilgun 12,500:1 13MW coilgun 27,600:1 13MW coilgun 2525:1
Of course if the coil gun (and to a lesser extent rail gun) is allowed to boost it's available power in such a way, without any penalty in mass and bulk of capacitor banks, then they will be used by inappropriately small ships to threaten much heavier vessels.
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Post by bdcarrillo on Jan 31, 2017 3:51:58 GMT
Fundamentally it seems that you're stating that 360Mw is insufficient to accelerate a 1.3g shell to ~50 kms in X amount of travel time down the 15m barrel... Right?
Edit- figured out the time... 0.0000006 seconds to apply 1.625megawatt seconds... Or~2.7million megawatt seconds in that brief acceleration time.
Hrmph... Seems the gun needs about 750Mw for a blink of an eye to fire, and our KE to input power Weapon Checker may not dig deep enough.
Well I sit corrected... The cyclic rate for this particular gun SHOULD be about 55% lower than the max theoretical from Weapon Checker to account for capacitor refill.
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Post by broggly on Jan 31, 2017 4:00:47 GMT
I can't manage to get the Pokey Bit working either, so I'm not sure how well it does against my own ship, the Heart of Gold. Made entirely from stock modules, and a limited understanding of ship design, the Heart of Gold relies on its 5 railgun broadside destroying opponents before they can get into range. Mass: 10.7kt Cost: 130 Mc Armour: Diamond and Aluminum inner layer, Aramid and Gold Leaf outer layer heartofgold.txt (1.06 KB)
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Post by bdcarrillo on Jan 31, 2017 4:21:46 GMT
Is the needlegun module on my ship causing the problem/red triangle?
If so, add the lithium rad shield as a payload craft and add it to the wepon module.
Note that it is a broken design... Efficiency is less than 100%, but it's getting free energy during it's firing sequence and has an odd payload vs barrel strength glitch.
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Post by broggly on Jan 31, 2017 4:33:42 GMT
I'm not sure how to do that, I'm new to Children of a Dead Earth, hence the entirely stock ship.
As in, I don't know how you would make the lithium rad shield module into a valid weapon payload.
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Post by apophys on Jan 31, 2017 6:21:48 GMT
A needle extends the length of the projectile and aligns it very well along the barrel. I'm not an expert on the subject, but this should be relevant compared to a bare armature. There's the question of whether the payload needle can survive the acceleration it gets. CoaDE should really model structural integrity. Banning payloads could be an option for future competitions. But anyways, this arena has its stated rules, and I've been working within the limits as they stand. Here's my entry, the Gladiator. A 101 km/s flakneedle railgun (85% efficiency) strapped to a small ship with 47 km/s dV. The combat engines are 3 NTRs on one side (hidden by radiators). This allows the ship to reliably dodge while firing, greatly extending combat life. It is able to dodge its own projectiles, so acceleration is good enough. AI derpiness can be stopped by turning off dodging; unintuitively, the dodge thrusters will still fire continuously. Dodging dV will be drained before ammo, since there's enough to fire for 20 minutes straight (total overkill), whereas burn time is a bit over 6 minutes. Armor is largely ineffective against extreme weapons like we have, but I threw on a little for ricochet attempts. Radiators are 50% redundant. Measures to reduce cross-section mean this ship will shoot first against most opponents. Such as the current champion. Haven't tested an actual fight between the two, but a similar ship with the same armor scheme dies rather quickly. Warning: all parts are custom. This is a very long section of text. CrewModule 15 Crew Module UsesCustomName false CrewCapacity 15 Decks 5 StructureMaterial Polyethylene ShellThickness_m 0.01
ExplosiveModule 150 mg 1m Needle UsesCustomName true Length_m 1 ExplosiveMass_kg 0.0001 ExplosiveComposition Nitrocellulose ShrapnelMass_kg 5e-005 ShrapnelComposition Osmium Detonator HardRange_km 0.01 ActivationRange_km 0.4 MinimumRange_km 0 OverrideTimer_s 0 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
CraftBlueprint 150 mg 1m Needle Modules 150 mg 1m Needle 1 0 null 0 Armor
RailgunModule 1.000 GW 150 mg 1m Needle Turreted Railgun UsesCustomName false PowerConsumption_W 1e+009 Rails Composition Zirconium Copper Thickness_m 0.56 Length_m 14 BarrelArmorThickness_m 0.005 Armature Composition Osmium BoreRadius_m 0.0043 Mass_kg 0.001 Tracer null Payload 150 mg 1m Needle Loader PowerConsumption_W 3e+006 Turret InnerRadius_m 1.7 ArmorComposition Diamond ArmorThickness_m 0.2 MomentumWheels Composition Platinum RotationalSpeed_RPM 880 TargetsShips true TargetsShots true
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 1.01 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor UsesCustomName false ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.1 0.1 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 3 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 9 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.93 ControlRodComposition U-233 Dioxide ControlRodMass_kg 13 NeutronReflector Boron Nitride ReflectorThickness_m 0.565 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 2.2e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.8 RotationalSpeed_RPM 540 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 3 8.8 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2400 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Calcium PumpRadius_m 0.45 RotationalSpeed_RPM 530
NuclearThermalRocketModule 5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 UsesCustomName false ReactorCoreHeight_m 0.28 NuclearReactor Coolant Decane Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 16 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.96 ControlRodComposition U-233 Dioxide ControlRodMass_kg 23 NeutronReflector Boron Nitride ReflectorThickness_m 0.6 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 2.3e+020 ThermalRocket ChamberComposition Diamond ThroatRadius_m 0.026 ChamberWallThickness_m 0.032 ChamberContractionRatio 6 NozzleExpansionRatio 98 NozzleExpansionAngle_degrees 7 RegenerativeCooling_Percent 0.5 Injector Composition Potassium PumpRadius_m 0.43 RotationalSpeed_RPM 390 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.61 ArmorComposition Graphite Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.6 MomentumWheels Composition Vanadium Chromium Steel RotationalSpeed_RPM 14000 GimbalAngle_degrees 20
MagnetoplasmadynamicThrusterModule 47.8 km/s 1.00 GW Decane MPD UsesCustomName true CathodeRadius_m 0.016 ChamberThickness_m 0.027 AnodeThickness_m 0.001 ThrusterLength_m 0.044 CathodeComposition Potassium AnodeComposition Depleted Uranium InsulatorComposition Polyethylene Propellant Decane Current_A 1.5e+005 Injector Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.045 RotationalSpeed_RPM 160 Gimbal InnerRadius_m 0.065 ArmorComposition Silica Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.062 MomentumWheels Composition Calcium RotationalSpeed_RPM 34000 GimbalAngle_degrees 90
RadiatorModule 20x50 Amorphous Carbon Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Amorphous Carbon PanelWidth_m 1 Height_m 50 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 20 SurfaceFinish Diamond
RadiationShieldModule 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield UsesCustomName false Composition Lithium-6 Dimensions_m 2.5 0.004
PropellantTankModule 100 t Decane Tank UsesCustomName false Propellant Decane StructureComposition Boron ReactionMass_kg 1e+005 HeightToRadiusRatio 13 AdditionalArmorThickness_m 0
RadiatorModule 1x10 Boron Radiator UsesCustomName false Composition Boron PanelWidth_m 0.5 Height_m 10 Thickness_m 0.001 ArmorThickness_m 0.001 Panels 2 SurfaceFinish Diamond
AmmoModule 10000x 150 mg 1m Needle UsesCustomName false SuppliedModule 1.000 GW 150 mg 1m Needle Turreted Railgun AmmoBay Capacity 10000 Stacks 1 ArmorComposition Graphite Aerogel ArmorThickness_m 0.005
CraftBlueprint Gladiator Modules 15 Crew Module 3 -0.77735 null 0 1.000 GW 150 mg 1m Needle Turreted Railgun 1 53.511 null 0 1.01 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 -0.40625 null 0 5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 1 26.033 null 0 47.8 km/s 1.00 GW Decane MPD 1 0 null 0 20x50 Amorphous Carbon Radiator 3 25.097 1.01 GW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1.05 5.00 m Diameter 4.00 mm Radiation Shield 1 -0.73096 null 0 100 t Decane Tank 7 -0.68457 null 0 1x10 Boron Radiator 6 45.159 15 Crew Module 0.02 5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 1 29.435 null 0 5.40 km/s Decane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 1 22.749 null 0 10000x 150 mg 1m Needle 19 53.511 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Amorphous Carbon 0.0015 0.01 0.001 1 1 Osmium 0.001 0 0.001 1 1
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Post by Easy on Jan 31, 2017 16:03:43 GMT
It has come time to admit I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm refining and I'm only at one tenth of the mass and nowhere near the credit cost either.
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