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Post by v2rocket on Jan 23, 2017 1:45:13 GMT
I know that it is difficult to trigger a battle in an isosceles triangle shape in practice (two fleets enter range against one enemy fleet at the same time), but is it literally possible in the game?
In the battle between coilgun ships from original designs, this seems to be meaningless. However, given the fact that laser gunships can be very effective after module modifications. Shooting off radiators should be the primary goal in the battle between laser gunships, and multi-angle attack is a simple way to gain the advantage. Any further opinions?
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Post by n2maniac on Jan 23, 2017 4:19:33 GMT
It is literally impossible in the game (other than having ships split up at the start of battle, which is worth noting). Does seem useful in cases where module protection is relied upon very precise angles (radiator in laser vs laser of particular note). Particularly with 1000km laser engagements...
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 23, 2017 5:20:46 GMT
Actually, I do have an idea about this. One side built a contracted polygon-shaped ship, so the other side designed high delta-v missiles that burn in a projectile trajectory, striking the enemy ship with high angle. |
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Post by Easy on Jan 23, 2017 16:20:14 GMT
I don't think the game allows it. You can have 2 fleets in the exact same orbit but only one of them will enter combat.
Best you can do is maximize the engagement range envelope (setting a launcher or laser to long distance) and then do your maneuvers from hundreds of km out.
You'd also need to manage your missile and drone delta V carefully because they like to waste fuel and run out of delta v in the first sixty seconds of combat.
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Post by v2rocket on Jan 24, 2017 3:49:16 GMT
I don't think the game allows it. You can have 2 fleets in the exact same orbit but only one of them will enter combat. Best you can do is maximize the engagement range envelope (setting a launcher or laser to long distance) and then do your maneuvers from hundreds of km out. You'd also need to manage your missile and drone delta V carefully because they like to waste fuel and run out of delta v in the first sixty seconds of combat. Don't you think that it is actually a kind of bug? If the enemy fleet rush to me, I can send out one good-armored ship ahead. As long as this ship doesn't die before flying by, my other ships can avoid a deadly combat as if they are hiding in another universe. |
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 24, 2017 4:58:28 GMT
I don't think the game allows it. You can have 2 fleets in the exact same orbit but only one of them will enter combat. Best you can do is maximize the engagement range envelope (setting a launcher or laser to long distance) and then do your maneuvers from hundreds of km out. You'd also need to manage your missile and drone delta V carefully because they like to waste fuel and run out of delta v in the first sixty seconds of combat. Don't you think that it is actually a kind of bug? If the enemy fleet rush to me, I can send out one good-armored ship ahead. As long as this ship doesn't die before flying by, my other ships can avoid a deadly combat as if they are hiding in another universe. What if the enemy ship evade the well-armored ship then intercept your fleet? |
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Post by n2maniac on Jan 24, 2017 5:34:54 GMT
Don't you think that it is actually a kind of bug? If the enemy fleet rush to me, I can send out one good-armored ship ahead. As long as this ship doesn't die before flying by, my other ships can avoid a deadly combat as if they are hiding in another universe. What if the enemy ship evade the well-armored ship then intercept your fleet? Yes, this is a thing you can do. Particularly effective with long range laser drones and a short-range fleet. Kinda bugusing, but whatever. |
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utilitas
Junior Member
I can do this all day.
Posts: 59
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Post by utilitas on Jan 24, 2017 15:21:49 GMT
Multiple fleets being unable to engage at once seems to be a glaring issue with the game, one which I hope will get fixed. Even when both fleets are on a spot-on perfect intercept, only the one which comes "into range" first actually gets put into the battle, the other just coasting by as if it were a ghost. This has doomed several campaign missions for me, actually, when my fleet accidentally engaged right before a barrage of missiles could hit the enemy fleet, basically making the missile fleet completely worthless. Same goes for multiple ships on an exact same orbit, only one of them actually gets engaged instead of the whole bunch, which allows for some really dumb evasion.
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Post by Easy on Jan 24, 2017 18:24:39 GMT
Multiple fleets being unable to engage at once seems to be a glaring issue with the game, one which I hope will get fixed. Even when both fleets are on a spot-on perfect intercept, only the one which comes "into range" first actually gets put into the battle, the other just coasting by as if it were a ghost. This has doomed several campaign missions for me, actually, when my fleet accidentally engaged right before a barrage of missiles could hit the enemy fleet, basically making the missile fleet completely worthless. Same goes for multiple ships on an exact same orbit, only one of them actually gets engaged instead of the whole bunch, which allows for some really dumb evasion. That is exactly why it is important to micromanage and spend a little delta v speeding up or slowing down in the last few minutes before an encounter. Also ships have an engagement bubble around them that is based on the longest range weapon they carry that still has ammo and isn't disabled. So if you set your capships to have lasers or launchers with large engagement ranges they're going to arrive before your missiles. It is also a reason to uncheck split fleet unless you really mean it. |
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utilitas
Junior Member
I can do this all day.
Posts: 59
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Post by utilitas on Jan 24, 2017 19:07:56 GMT
That is exactly why it is important to micromanage and spend a little delta v speeding up or slowing down in the last few minutes before an encounter. Also ships have an engagement bubble around them that is based on the longest range weapon they carry that still has ammo and isn't disabled. So if you set your capships to have lasers or launchers with large engagement ranges they're going to arrive before your missiles. It is also a reason to uncheck split fleet unless you really mean it. But you shouldn't have to do that. You shouldn't specifically try to "game the system" in a game designed about realistic sci-fi and realistic gameplay. I shouldn't have to exploit quirks in the game's rules in order to do something that should be achievable in reality and therefore also in the scope of the game. I'm not saying that everything should be possible in a realistic game. I'm just saying that the player naturally expects the game to feature multi-fleet encounters, as it is a completely natural extension of the game's features, and the lack thereof breaks up the pace and forces the player into a position where they have to circumvent such a situation. Yes, I can circumvent it with a little bit of planning and exploiting game mechanics, but I should never have to do that. |
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Post by Easy on Jan 24, 2017 19:36:29 GMT
That is exactly why it is important to micromanage and spend a little delta v speeding up or slowing down in the last few minutes before an encounter. Also ships have an engagement bubble around them that is based on the longest range weapon they carry that still has ammo and isn't disabled. So if you set your capships to have lasers or launchers with large engagement ranges they're going to arrive before your missiles. It is also a reason to uncheck split fleet unless you really mean it. But you shouldn't have to do that. You shouldn't specifically try to "game the system" in a game designed about realistic sci-fi and realistic gameplay. I shouldn't have to exploit quirks in the game's rules in order to do something that should be achievable in reality and therefore also in the scope of the game. I'm not saying that everything should be possible in a realistic game. I'm just saying that the player naturally expects the game to feature multi-fleet encounters, as it is a completely natural extension of the game's features, and the lack thereof breaks up the pace and forces the player into a position where they have to circumvent such a situation. Yes, I can circumvent it with a little bit of planning and exploiting game mechanics, but I should never have to do that. Sure, the ideal alternative would be able to switch between the tactical and strategic interfaces at will and for the strategic burns to be able to occur mid battle. Rendering all ships within 1Mm of any ships in an encounter, advancing time for all ships during encounters, allowing multiple encounters, requiring mass launch of missiles/drones to take the full time to do so when outside encounters. And other little things would be nice. Of course cry for those poor processors who now have to track millions of 1 gram projectiles in encounters that are now many Mm wide and do it simultaneously for 2+ encounters. |
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Post by lieste on Jan 24, 2017 20:18:25 GMT
While I can see a use for instancing the combat, I would strongly welcome the expansion of this instancing to accommodate forward/rear AA piquets, missile/drone fleets and other tactical options instanced with the main engagement if they are inside the tactical bubble, rather than ignored.
Orbital mechanics makes most of these unstable operational arrangements, only leading/trailing on the same orbit are likely to be possible without relatively large numbers or expenditures of propellant.
I almost lost a fleet recently to this design choice - my Mm+ gunship isn't terribly mobile and requires support from PD gunships. On one engagement a drone and missile fleet arrived together and one was engaged and destroyed and the other took up station on orbit within the engagement radius of the large gunship, but not engaged. To clear it I had to detach the PD gunship, which cleared the fleet and was assigned to rejoin. Before it could return (a few km short of the join from the 'hostile' side) the enemy capital fleet entered the 1200km sphere and was engaged, and the smaller main fleet wasn't able to cleanly engage the entire enemy fleet in the absence of the PD vessel.
While there will be additional complexities to multi-fleet engagements, it does seem to be something that has to be done, because the alternative is fundamentally flawed.
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