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Post by dragonkid11 on Jan 1, 2017 3:44:27 GMT
After being part of the CoaDE community for a while, we pretty learnt the current optimum propellant for our custom vessel.
For NTR, we have. Decane, a dense fuel source with good exhaust speed (Around 5.40 kmps) Methane, the second densest fuel source, also with good exhaust speed (Around 6.30 kmps) Hydrogen deuteride, a very light fuel source with incredibly good exhaust speed (Around 9.10 kmps).
For resistojet, we have. Decane, because somehow it has good power to thrust ratio in resistojet as well as a good exhaust speed (6.15 kmps)
For MPD, we have. Mercury, densest fuel possible while having good power to thrust ratio. Xenon, for the second densest fuel with cheaper price tag. Hydrogen deuteride, works for a cheap, less dense fuel source. And Methane can be workable for a dual MPD/NTR drive.
So, the reason I made this thread is to see if we can somehow find an alternative fuel source that could possibly excel in something or could be used as an alternative propellant as they have good in-between attributes.
So, first example I have. Neon.
Found in some thread months ago, Neon has a bad exhaust speed (Around 2.50 kmps) but it's super dense and super cheap. However, it has quite a good power to thrust ratio in MPD drive, which could be used to carry the neon based warship first before fighting. With exhaust speed for 40.0 kmps from my current neon MPD drive, it could be up for some good usage.
So, any one of you have some idea for alternative propellant?
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Post by jasonvance on Jan 1, 2017 5:07:16 GMT
I would highly recommend regular Hydrogen over Hydrogen Det for MPDs since they function completely off the fuel density you will get much higher exhaust velocities from Hydrogen than Hydrogen Det.
But if you are using something for practical MPD purposes on a ship or drone Neon is by far best in class propellant due to the lower cost. I've been using it on my laser drones heh. Since fuel tends to be a significant cost or mass of your ship using Neon greatly reduces the cost of the over all ship.
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Post by David367th on Jan 1, 2017 6:12:09 GMT
I propose Sodium as an alternative fuel because it puts out yellow flames /s
Bad everything else though.
On a more serious note, I think I saw someone using Pentane in a design but I haven't gotten around to checking it out.
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 1, 2017 6:55:38 GMT
Decane, because somehow it has good power to thrust ratio in resistojet as well as a good exhaust speed (6.15 kmps) I suspect Decane decomposes in a high power resistojet to other hydrocarbons, before they decompose as well, increasing thrust/fuel weight ratio. Of course, then other complex hydrocarbons should have good resistojet performance.
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Post by apophys on Jan 1, 2017 10:25:16 GMT
Neon is my preferred MPD propellant due to its excellent cheapness and performance. (251 km/s @ 100GW) Sulfur dioxide outperforms xenon with nearly the same density and greatly reduced cost.
Both of these are on the standards thread already as MPD propellants.
All the hydrocarbons between methane and decane are usable for NTRs; they form a spectrum of increasing density and decreasing exhaust velocity. They form a similar spectrum of increasing utility in resistojets.
Theoretically, diborane should be similar to methane in all respects. But we don't have it in-game (yet?).
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Post by subunit on Jan 2, 2017 3:42:14 GMT
I propose Sodium as an alternative fuel because it puts out yellow flames /s Bad everything else though. On a more serious note, I think I saw someone using Pentane in a design but I haven't gotten around to checking it out. If we ever get a crew morale model, having a bunch of sodium burners that come on as they ride into battle should give a morale bonus.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Jan 2, 2017 4:01:57 GMT
I think butane and pentane can be alternative fuel for having balanced attribute in between exhaust speed of methane and density of decane.
They are after all, hydrocarbons except with longer and shorter chain.
Also, if you are using neon as MPD fuel, use resistojet instead of NTR for higher thrust burn because resistojet give a slightly higher exhaust speed (2.83 kmps)
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Post by Rocket Witch on Jan 3, 2017 19:27:01 GMT
I like to use semiheavy water on capitals and carbon dioxide on munitions, in either NTRs or Rjets. They simply continue down the progression of increasing density at the expense of velocity, nothing special but they aren't terrible like a lot of options. Did anyone ever find a use for alumina nanofluid? Searching for it suggests it's some sort of amazing thermal conductor but it doesn't do a lot in-game. Maybe it could have a future application in liquid droplet radiators or something... Someone on the Steam forums talked about using fluorine-ammonia in combustion rockets instead of fluorine-methane: Ammonia is missing some properties compared to other propellants though, so this could change in the future. I propose Sodium as an alternative fuel because it puts out yellow flames /s I've been wanting a working krypton engine just for the blue exhaust.
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Post by David367th on Jan 3, 2017 19:47:49 GMT
[...] I propose Sodium as an alternative fuel because it puts out yellow flames /s I've been wanting a working krypton engine just for the blue exhaust. Same but you can't get it hot enough to get into blue, everything melts.
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Post by someusername6 on Jan 3, 2017 19:50:23 GMT
I propose Sodium as an alternative fuel because it puts out yellow flames /s Xenon can do golden and green, too (on resistojets) ... would it be feasible to add small fragments of stuff to the fuel so that the flame becomes colored? I don't care if that hurts the efficiency a little bit, we already have tracers, might as well do it on exhaust flames too.
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Post by David367th on Jan 3, 2017 20:10:47 GMT
I tried replacing my F+CH 4 rockets with F+NH 3 and kept them roughly the same size. I converted a 27.4 Kg, 3.38 km/s, 355 kN, 9:1 F+CH 4 Rocket into a 34.8 kg, 2.64 km/s, 285 kN, 5.58:1 F+NH 3 rocket. With the F+NH 3 being slightly smaller, how it's heavier might have to be with the pump. The drone lost about 3 km/s and 2g acceleration although is now heavier and ever so slightly smaller. Dropping its cross section from 5.03 m 2 to 4.99m 2I might have to tinker around more with the ammonia engines size and shape to get the velocity higher, but so far it's not looking good. If the rocket has to get bigger, the gains in velocity might be offset in adding more armor to a longer/wider drone. Although, in capital application, its performance might not be so bad, but I would assume a methane NTR would outperform the F+NH 3 combustion rocket easily. Final Final Final Edit: Got the NH3 rocket to 2.97 and 401 kN, and quite a bit smaller than the CH4 rocket... things are looking bright. The drone has increased acceleration but it still lacks delta-v. Perhaps F+NH3 rockets would be good for short range high acceleration missiles, but doesn't LOX+LH2 still have the highest thrust over all combustions? Edit the Sixteenth: Sort of what I've learned from working with the NH3 I improved the CH4 and optimized it further. Now smaller, lighter, higher velocity, and more thrust than the NH3. Don't know if I can improve either further. I propose Sodium as an alternative fuel because it puts out yellow flames /s Xenon can do golden and green, too (on resistojets)[...] Guess I need to back and look at exhaust colors again lol. As for adding things I don't think qswitched would be too focused on letting us trick out our engine colors.
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Post by amimai on Jan 3, 2017 20:49:14 GMT
NTR/resistrojets: Pentane (excellent thrust, better then decane and methane)
Methane (Best dual purpose MPD/NTR propellant)
MPD: Neon (Bulk MPD propellant)
Hydrogen (Best external tank fuel, 100GW/kg trust easily)
Mercury (Good backup propellant, even a tiny tank can hold enough fuel for 50dV)
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Post by David367th on Jan 3, 2017 20:51:21 GMT
Does that mean Methane has better exhaust velocity over pentane?
Got around to Pentane NTR's looks like you loose around 0.7 km/s for 2 MN added
messed around with other -anes looks like RP-1/dodecane has more thrust for even less velocity, Butane is roughly the same as Pentane but less dense and cheaper, to minor hits to both velocity and thrust. Same goes for Ethane, but even larger hit hits to velocity and thrust but again cheaper and less dense.
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Post by amimai on Jan 3, 2017 21:14:02 GMT
Does that mean Methane has better exhaust velocity over pentane? Got around to Pentane NTR's looks like you loose around 0.7 km/s for 2 MN added messed around with other -anes looks like RP-1/dodecane has more thrust for even less velocity, Butane is roughly the same as Pentane but less dense and cheaper, to minor hits to both velocity and thrust. Same goes for Ethane, but even larger hit hits to velocity and thrust but again cheaper and less dense. Pentane is More dense then methane Gives 95% the dV of methane Burns faster then methane(smaller engines give much more thrust) It's basically a better decane
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Post by kitten on Jan 3, 2017 21:25:38 GMT
Pentane is pretty good. Pentane and methane are both viable for MPD/Resistojet flex drives.
Not sure why people are talking about NTR/MPD dual propulsion though, surely MPD/Resistojet is much better? There's no need to enable both at the same time, so MPD/Resisto saves you the mass of having two different fission reactors.
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