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Post by nate2010 on Dec 4, 2016 16:34:18 GMT
As the title suggests, I'm looking for tips to increase my gun's toughness. I've gone so far as to have 7cm+ vanadium chromium steel armor for the turret and barrel (railgun module in this case) but Im running into situations where my hull armor will be holding but all my turrets will be gone. its so bad that i keep the turrets away from reactors/crew modules because of the gaping holes they leave in my armor protection when they get destroyed. any tips?
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Post by amimai on Dec 4, 2016 16:48:50 GMT
you would be better off using:
interchangeable bulk armour (boron is slightly stronger, carbon is slightly better vs laser)
amorphous carbon
boron
dense armour, for thinly armoured but heavy turrets (osmium is also decent for anti-laser properties)
diamond (very tough and dense so you can make smaller turret)
osmium (heavy, but it is the strongest material)
"Made of Money" armour
silica gel (expensive, light, very laser resistant)
ceramic oxide fibre (very expensive, very tough and laser resistant)
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Post by shurugal on Dec 4, 2016 16:52:21 GMT
until some massive improvements come through in turret design, we just have to deal with it.
My biggest problem right now is that i can have a turret with 1m-thick aerogel, and lasers still destroy it instantly because i can't protect the actual gun sticking out.
On the bright side, 1m-thick armor on a 1m radius turret puts the turret entirely outside the ship armor, no gaping hole when it goes.
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Post by goduranus on Dec 4, 2016 17:16:19 GMT
gaping holes they leave in my armor protection when they get destroyed. any tips? For the outermost layer of armor, make a 1/2mm layer of silica aerogel, then space it 2meters, all of your turrets will now sit outside of your main armor, and no gaping holes will be left when your turrets get destroyed. |
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 4, 2016 19:40:42 GMT
gaping holes they leave in my armor protection when they get destroyed. any tips? For the outermost layer of armor, make a 1/2mm layer of silica aerogel, then space it 2meters, all of your turrets will now sit outside of your main armor, and no gaping holes will be left when your turrets get destroyed. This works for small turrets. When you have 8m+ turrets, add multiple cm (or more) of quality armor. |
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Post by nate2010 on Dec 4, 2016 19:57:44 GMT
I think my turrets are around the size where this would work (2m approx) , but im at 7.5 cm of vanadium chromium steel and they still get popped in gun engagements. I guess I need to test to see if its the lasers or kinetics getting them.
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Post by n2maniac on Dec 4, 2016 19:58:00 GMT
Visually it leaves gaping holes in the ship armor. Testing a bit with my vessels armored with (among other things) a thick 3m carbon aerogel layer seems to indicate that gaping holes are not left, and there is still a reasonable amount of protection present. Don't know if the volume of the turret is carved out of the armor or if the armor acts continuous.
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Post by nate2010 on Dec 4, 2016 20:25:45 GMT
It does seem like the holes make a difference..ive had modules underneath those holes get taken out even though the armor surrounding the gap is still fine.
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Post by amimai on Dec 4, 2016 20:37:24 GMT
Yea loosing large turrets makes the into dead space, the only exception is nose mounts. It's particularly noticeable when large shrapnel bombs go off near soft turrets, the turret pops but armour blocks the dust of death, except where the turrets were, there the dust of death rips through the other side of the ship and anything inbetween.
Ten again it may be only particles simulating properly, I have not seen similar behaviour for nukes much. But most components are already pretty nuke resistant.
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Post by amimai on Dec 5, 2016 17:52:55 GMT
BTW: I just ran some tests (per mass equalised)
lasers (12x 1.5MW output, 5MW intensity) (measured as time to kill 20 turrets)
Silica gel : highest survival (10 seconds)
Amorphous carbon : 90% of Silica gel
Diamond : 45% survival
Boron : 30% survival
osmium : 15% survival
vanadium chromium : 10% survival time
Nukes 10MT nukes at 6km detonation
Silica gel : 12/12 40x10MT (ship died because diamond radiators melted)
Amorphous carbon : 83% survive 4x10MT
Diamond : 83% survive 2x10MT
Boron: 60% survive 2x10MT
osmium : 0% survival 1x10MT
vanadium chromium : 0% survival 1x10MT
Shrapnel 20 missiles carrying 600m/s 700x6g + 10x500g frags detonating at 1.5km range (survival>50% break even point in brackets)
Silica gel : 0% this stuff wont survive a harsh sneez even if you put 1m on...
Amorphous carbon : 5cm, 4t
Diamond : 3cm, 4t
Boron: 3.9cm, 3t
osmium : 5.3mm, 4.5t
vanadium chromium : 1.1cm, 3t
so:
for general purpose you want amorphous carbon, its cheap, its strong, its a wonder material, and you only need around 4mm to stand up to most things
for money and 'murica and EXTRA FREEDOM! you can use silicon aerogel, it is as good vs lasers, balls at stopping any projectile, but will survive the soviet nuclear alpha strike
Boron is pretty good as armour if you are particularly working to counter kinetics, but otherwise fairly bad
some notes about materials I tested
for a ships hull (DC-BGO)
this is the armour I used while testing these turrets, the ship itself never took any damage
(1.5mm)Osmium : this stuff does not spall, no mater how hard you hit it an internal armour layer of 1.5mm osmium will take it
(1.5m)Graphite aerogel : mystery material, when sandwiched between 2 hard armours like boron-boron or vanadium-boron it makes a very strong laser and ballistic shield
(1cm)boron : will spall but in large amounts is reliable armour against most things
air gap : these 2 sets of armour work as separate entities, they should not touch but even without diamond-carbon top layer boron-graph-osmium is very strong
(1cm)amorphous carbon : if you want to make armour out of just one material this is your go to, it also works as a great heat sink to prevent diamond from melting
(6mm)diamond : when thick enough will bounce off odd angle shots without fracturing, transmits heat well and a reliable top layer when paired with a high capacity internal layer (will bounce most kinetics, withstand nuclear hell, and diffuse off most lasers without even getting a worm glow)
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Post by nate2010 on Dec 6, 2016 14:01:24 GMT
We must be ending up in different situations. Railguns blow through that turret armoring scheme with ease. Like i said, im up to 7+ cm of armor varying through vanadium chromium, boron, amorphous carbon, etc etc...it just seems like turrets are going to be a weak point as long as we're not able to layer the armor on them also.
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Post by beta on Dec 6, 2016 20:44:19 GMT
For armouring against kinetic impacts, past a certain point (~20km/s with current materials), you basically cannot armour something well against them. The speed of sound of the material, if the projectile impacts exceeds it, will be the main chokepoint. When the projectile exceeds the speed of sound, the armour is rapidly compromised even if it is extremely thick. High speed of sound materials will generally survive longer. The ultimate tensile strength and yield strength are also important.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 6, 2016 22:27:56 GMT
Sloping is a huge factor. If enemy impacts come at an acute angle instead of dead on, even hypervelocity shots can bounce.
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Post by shurugal on Dec 7, 2016 18:41:25 GMT
Sloping is a huge factor. If enemy impacts come at an acute angle instead of dead on, even hypervelocity shots can bounce. sounds like the counter would be to use extremely plastic materials for hypervelocity slugs. It might bounce, but it is still going to transfer all the KE required to turn that slug into a pancake as it does so. Spalling would be horrific. can someone provide the engineering data for Silly Putty? I want reletavistic silly putty bullets now. |
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Post by lawson on Dec 8, 2016 0:12:02 GMT
Sloping is a huge factor. If enemy impacts come at an acute angle instead of dead on, even hypervelocity shots can bounce. sounds like the counter would be to use extremely plastic materials for hypervelocity slugs. It might bounce, but it is still going to transfer all the KE required to turn that slug into a pancake as it does so. Spalling would be horrific. can someone provide the engineering data for Silly Putty? I want reletavistic silly putty bullets now. Just use Gold bullets. It's almost infinitely ductile at room temperature. Polymers stiffen up as you shear them faster, so a Silly Putty slug at 40km/s would shatter like glass. |
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