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Post by Crazy Tom on Dec 1, 2016 4:12:34 GMT
Even with firing algorithm fixed, I'm still looking at around 10 missiles shot down per gigawatt laser at 1000km range Which mean I just need to do a little math and viola, dead warship. Sure, flare could make those missiles goes off target but a 10 gigawatt flare is stupidly expensive and heavy. Also, switch all of my missiles to using decane has a dramatic effect of missiles dodging most of the laser fire because they are simply too small to be hit. It makes them way more compact for storage purpose too! Thanks, amimai. Could you post a pic of your engine module? I'd like to compare it to my miniaturized NTRs. |
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Post by n2maniac on Dec 1, 2016 7:28:16 GMT
The AI won't target kinetic missiles properly, leading to a much increased success rate. And if you want to test your lasers against AI missiles swarms you're limited to around 50 at a time. Lasers targeting rod based kinetic missiles are also inefficient as they aim for the centre of the missile, which means your lasers will try to burn through half a meter of osmium/steel/depleted uranium. Optimally, all lasers would target separate missiles (because ablation per second becomes less efficient after a certain point) and aim somewhat off-centre (to avoid burning through the penetrator). The economics are also off, as silica aerogel is a lot more expensive per pound in real life than Kevlar (aramid fibre). FYI: you should be able to edit the AI file that has lines to modify the amount of missiles they fire. For example: MilitaryDoctrine Ranged
NoAntiFlareTactics true
MissileLaunchDoctrine
OnlyWhenNodal false
DistanceMaximum_km 50000
WingsInFlightNeeded 1
AttackWingSize 50 |
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Post by cutterjohn on Dec 1, 2016 9:13:18 GMT
Sure, flare could make those missiles goes off target but a 10 gigawatt flare is stupidly expensive and heavy. Behold! I don't have a 10gw decoy, but here's my 6.75GW one. A bit lighter, and costs half as much as an equivalent flare that lasts 10s.  Here's its powerplant. I optimized for cost, obviously, since it needs to provide no useful power. And the radiators are obviously just tinfoil.  Still pricey, sadly, but *far* more cost effective than flares since it will last until destroyed, and its powered so it leads the missiles well away. I threw a dummy turret on it so it could be controlled like a drone, then give it the scatter command, which sends it away from my ship(and it needs to be away, with 131kw of radiation!) Unfortunately I can't just build a heat dump reactor with a tiny bypass to power the pumps.. all the heat has to go through the thermocouple, forcing the thermocouple to be huge, and forcing two huge pumps instead of one huge one and one small one. Attachments:
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Post by dragonkid11 on Dec 1, 2016 12:17:27 GMT
Even with firing algorithm fixed, I'm still looking at around 10 missiles shot down per gigawatt laser at 1000km range Which mean I just need to do a little math and viola, dead warship. Sure, flare could make those missiles goes off target but a 10 gigawatt flare is stupidly expensive and heavy. Also, switch all of my missiles to using decane has a dramatic effect of missiles dodging most of the laser fire because they are simply too small to be hit. It makes them way more compact for storage purpose too! Thanks, amimai. Could you post a pic of your engine module? I'd like to compare it to my miniaturized NTRs. Here's my NTR.   Both my decane and hydrogen deuteride version. |
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Post by Crazy Tom on Dec 1, 2016 18:06:12 GMT
You know, I would argue that the current max range for lasers isn't large enough. By increasing my aperture, I can get intensities at max range that are much greater than silica aerogel's critical ablation intensity.
Said lasers are actually quite cheap - the bulk of the cost for these huge aperture turrets actually comes from the reaction wheels, which wouldn't really be a problem IRL where electric motors could be used.
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Post by amimai on Dec 1, 2016 19:15:24 GMT
You know, I would argue that the current max range for lasers isn't large enough. By increasing my aperture, I can get intensities at max range that are much greater than silica aerogel's critical ablation intensity. Said lasers are actually quite cheap - the bulk of the cost for these huge aperture turrets actually comes from the reaction wheels, which wouldn't really be a problem IRL where electric motors could be used. if one wants, one can build the death star... |
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Post by shurugal on Dec 1, 2016 21:38:59 GMT
Even with firing algorithm fixed, I'm still looking at around 10 missiles shot down per gigawatt laser at 1000km range Which mean I just need to do a little math and viola, dead warship. Sure, flare could make those missiles goes off target but a 10 gigawatt flare is stupidly expensive and heavy. Also, switch all of my missiles to using decane has a dramatic effect of missiles dodging most of the laser fire because they are simply too small to be hit. It makes them way more compact for storage purpose too! Thanks, amimai. I have arrived at an interesting solution for this... I took my 10 km/s missile coilgun and replaced the missile with a big-ass flare (200 MW, 10s burn time). I cut the mass of the gun down a fair bit, and I have 6 of them mounted concentrically around the main cannon on my warship's nose. My ship makes 17 GW heat, but at 100km, 6 200MW flares only a few meters away are bright enough for missiles to prefer them, even without retracting my radiators. I'll post a video shortly, the results are impressive. |
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Post by mmmfriedrice on Dec 2, 2016 1:36:13 GMT
I have arrived at an interesting solution for this... I took my 10 km/s missile coilgun and replaced the missile with a big-ass flare (200 MW, 10s burn time). I cut the mass of the gun down a fair bit, and I have 6 of them mounted concentrically around the main cannon on my warship's nose. My ship makes 17 GW heat, but at 100km, 6 200MW flares only a few meters away are bright enough for missiles to prefer them, even without retracting my radiators. I'll post a video shortly, the results are impressive. Shooting flare KKVs at the enemy. Two birds with one stone! |
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Post by dragonkid11 on Dec 2, 2016 1:59:14 GMT
Flare cause object to explode when they burnt out though.
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Post by lawson on Dec 2, 2016 2:23:42 GMT
You know, I would argue that the current max range for lasers isn't large enough. By increasing my aperture, I can get intensities at max range that are much greater than silica aerogel's critical ablation intensity. Said lasers are actually quite cheap - the bulk of the cost for these huge aperture turrets actually comes from the reaction wheels, which wouldn't really be a problem IRL where electric motors could be used. I think a worse problem is the laser damage approximations. Common laser cutters run in the 10^12 w/m^2 ballpark and more power continues to increase the cut rate. Gosh darn it! I want to be able to slice and dice ships with my 32 meter aperture turret that pumpes out 440MW of green death! This will probably require the game engine to use a sub-dividable regular gird for all the space-ship parts. Such a big change is bound to be a massive project. |
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Post by shurugal on Dec 2, 2016 2:41:45 GMT
Flare cause object to explode when they burnt out though. That's a bad thing in a long-range decoy launcher? also, sorry but no video, my Shadow Play doesn't want to recognize the game.... grr. |
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Post by dragonkid11 on Dec 2, 2016 3:48:33 GMT
Flare cause object to explode when they burnt out though. That's a bad thing in a long-range decoy launcher? also, sorry but no video, my Shadow Play doesn't want to recognize the game.... grr. Basically, anything that you put a flare in will destroy itself when the flare burnt out. If you have any explosive with the flare, it will explode when it burnt out. |
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Post by amimai on Dec 2, 2016 8:32:39 GMT
You know, I would argue that the current max range for lasers isn't large enough. By increasing my aperture, I can get intensities at max range that are much greater than silica aerogel's critical ablation intensity. Said lasers are actually quite cheap - the bulk of the cost for these huge aperture turrets actually comes from the reaction wheels, which wouldn't really be a problem IRL where electric motors could be used. I think a worse problem is the laser damage approximations. Common laser cutters run in the 10^12 w/m^2 ballpark and more power continues to increase the cut rate. Gosh darn it! I want to be able to slice and dice ships with my 32 meter aperture turret that pumpes out 440MW of green death! This will probably require the game engine to use a sub-dividable regular gird for all the space-ship parts. Such a big change is bound to be a massive project. How are lasers simulating in here? Larger beam waist should decrease laser intensity, not increase it... |
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Post by shurugal on Dec 2, 2016 13:03:08 GMT
That's a bad thing in a long-range decoy launcher? also, sorry but no video, my Shadow Play doesn't want to recognize the game.... grr. Basically, anything that you put a flare in will destroy itself when the flare burnt out. If you have any explosive with the flare, it will explode when it burnt out. ahh, i get what you mean now. I guess if you wanted to do what mmmfriedrice suggested, you could add a cheap single-shot ~mm/s launcher to a KKV and have it spit out the flare as it nears any missiles. |
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Post by shurugal on Dec 2, 2016 13:06:26 GMT
I think a worse problem is the laser damage approximations. Common laser cutters run in the 10^12 w/m^2 ballpark and more power continues to increase the cut rate. Gosh darn it! I want to be able to slice and dice ships with my 32 meter aperture turret that pumpes out 440MW of green death! This will probably require the game engine to use a sub-dividable regular gird for all the space-ship parts. Such a big change is bound to be a massive project. How are lasers simulating in here? Larger beam waist should decrease laser intensity, not increase it... Which it does. However, the way laser damage is calculated, once your intensity reaches the point where it does enough damage to punch a hole in something in a single 'tick', any further intensity is "waisted"  |
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