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Post by goduranus on Nov 12, 2016 14:08:27 GMT
When I was a younger man, I thought space battles were pretty cool, fueled by cool movies like Startrek or Battlestar Galactica.
But now that I play this game, not so much any more. Space is just so much boredom and so many ways to die. Just curious, if a space war is gonna happen soon, would you really dare to serve on a space warship?
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 12, 2016 14:32:52 GMT
Being in the military is a lot less interesting than you think even in real life.
In truth, military is consisted of 99% boring-ass tasks and 1% of pant-shitting terror.
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Post by cuddlefish on Nov 12, 2016 14:37:58 GMT
Only in space, the boring-ass tasks are also 'just one fuckup and maybe everyone dies' tasks... and the pant-shitting terror moments are such that what you the crewman do has almost no bearing on whether you're going to survive.
On the plus side, you know when the danger is coming many weeks or months in advance, so at least you can radio home an updated will. That, and spend the time from T-4 hours till T-15 minutes on the enemy salvo's arrival on whatever preparations or enjoyments you deem appropriate.
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Post by jonen on Nov 12, 2016 17:45:43 GMT
Seems to me that being on a spaceship in interplanetary can be pretty damned terrifying all on its own without anyone intentionally trying to blow you out of the void.
Sign me up for a tanker, or a cargo hauler. At least if people start shooting at it, it'll be over quick.
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Post by argonbalt on Nov 12, 2016 18:19:17 GMT
Heck yeah id serve! I think you just have to be a bit of a Sadomasochist. I love intense situations and the excitement of combat, but also allot of down time is nice for recovery. So you gottah pass allot of time, you do your routines, make sure everything is good then if i was in charge i would give my crew emulators and copies of the entire Shin Megami Tensei Series, or do a Final Fantasy series book club. You have got months and months of time so JRPG's are a perfect fit.
Sure Battles are brutal, but also quick as hell! I love doing fencing and boxing and that shit is always thirty seconds stretched to ten minutes in your mind.
But how can you guys honestly say this is worse than like 90% of wars? It's not shitting in a mud trench for a week before getting pancaked into the thirtieth attempt to take some fuck all hill in Prussia somewhere, It's not fighting up a island at some entrenched group of extremist Japanese who would probably blow themselves up by hiding in wounded bodies, it's not even some generic grey-yellow alleyway hiding thirty Islamic extremists waiting to liquefy your budies with cell phone bombs and ancient soviet RPG's. Heck eve submarines may have it worse, they are in ways, further away from the surface of the sea then space is.
You get months MONTHS of planning in space, you get to analyse the enemy, their movements and strategy. Then it's extreme strategic movements exhausting missiles while flying drones at each other before blasting them from laser range. And if you are incapable of ideal combat there is literally every direction for withdrawing. As Sun Tsu said: Know thy enemy, and know thyself. If you know both than victory is assured before ever stepping onto the field of battle, if only one is known then for every victory you will suffer defeat, if neither, then the field of battle should be a foreign place for you.
Space combat is like the best of battleship and jet fighter combat rolled into one, with the striking power of a carrier and ballistic submarine's payloads. Not to mention that space is the final superiority. Whoever controls it controls the system, air, water, ground all sit below it. It is a war in heaven between gods! THE AETHERIAN BATTLEFIELD!
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Post by goduranus on Nov 12, 2016 18:38:58 GMT
On the ground you could at least surrender, in the air you could eject, and even submarines have life pods. In space, you might be doomed even if your ship is mostly intact. You might have received lethal doses of radiation even if you win. Or you get stranded with rescue being years away.
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Post by argonbalt on Nov 12, 2016 19:09:40 GMT
On the ground you could at least surrender, in the air you could eject, and even submarines have life pods. In space, you might be doomed even if your ship is mostly intact. You might have received lethal doses of radiation even if you win. Or you get stranded with rescue being years away. On the ground you get captured and brutally executed or hopefully some light torture and ransoming , you are shot down and well, executed aranews.net/2016/07/isis-executes-syrian-pilot-deir-ez-zor/, sure submarines have lifepods in the case of light mechanical failure, but any significant internal explosion from even a single torpedo failure s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/29/22/02/2922024153c01b5c5c84bafe75b43eb2.jpg . The difference in space is that while many terrible things can occur, and while they are very far away, they are all very much evidently present, you can see all ships months ahead of time, radiation from nuclear warheads or the sun is both obviously visible as a threat for quite a while before it gets to you, all in all you get a tremendous advantage in fore sight and planning. All the factors of battle are laid out before you ahead of time.
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Post by pokington on Nov 13, 2016 15:24:11 GMT
Fuck no.
Presume you live on Mars and enlist in the RFP Navy. Given how highly trained crewmembers are, you probably have some kind of advanced degree in physics/engineering. You spend 2.5 years in training with your fellow crewmembers, learning your job and how to work as a team. Remember that two years is barely enough to become a buck non-commissioned officer in a terrestrial military, so it's really not a lot of experience.
Uh oh! War! Time to go kill some poor USTA slobs! Except they are at Saturn. It takes you six and a half years to get there, because your ship weighs-in in the kiloton range, so you're not going to get much faster than a Hohmann transfer. You arrive at your destination and spend a month maneuvering through the Saturnian system before you engage the enemy.
If you're dead, your efforts were pointless and you just spent the last 6.5 years of your life away from your friends and family only to die unceremoniously in space. Your family will never see your remains.
If you are lucky and good, 15 minutes later, you are still alive and the USTF slobs are dead. You then get to wait another 2.5 years for a Hohmann transfer window back home, then spend 6.5 more years in transfer before you can disembark at home and leave the RSP navy.
Your stellar 18 year military career consists of 2.5 years of training, 13 years of interplanetary transfer, 2.5 years of peacekeeping operations, and 15 minutes of sheer terror/combat. You can't quit at any time. Except for your training period, you are working literally every day of your military career.
So, again, fuck no.
Caveat emptor: you could probably get there faster using gravitational slingshots, but my point is that transfers to the outer solar system take a long time for a human regardless of the circumstances.
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Post by apophys on Nov 13, 2016 15:52:34 GMT
Space battles are cool... to simulate or to watch a video of, not to participate in. A battle carries significant risk of death, no matter how well the odds stack up for your side. And military orders received can be less than ideal.
I wouldn't even want to be on a civilian spaceship in peacetime, because light lag would make Internet connection speeds terrible.
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 13, 2016 16:08:23 GMT
Space battles are cool... to simulate or to watch a video of, not to participate in. A battle carries significant risk of death, no matter how well the odds stack up for your side. And military orders received can be less than ideal. I wouldn't even want to be on a civilian spaceship in peacetime, because light lag would make Internet connection speeds terrible. Noticed a typo, fixed it for you
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Post by wafflestoo on Nov 13, 2016 16:15:54 GMT
Fuck no. Presume you live on Mars and enlist in the RFP Navy. Given how highly trained crewmembers are, you probably have some kind of advanced degree in physics/engineering. You spend 2.5 years in training with your fellow crewmembers, learning your job and how to work as a team. Remember that two years is barely enough to become a buck non-commissioned officer in a terrestrial military, so it's really not a lot of experience. Uh oh! War! Time to go kill some poor USTA slobs! Except they are at Saturn. It takes you six and a half years to get there, because your ship weighs-in in the kiloton range, so you're not going to get much faster than a Hohmann transfer. You arrive at your destination and spend a month maneuvering through the Saturnian system before you engage the enemy. If you're dead, your efforts were pointless and you just spent the last 6.5 years of your life away from your friends and family only to die unceremoniously in space. Your family will never see your remains. If you are lucky and good, 15 minutes later, you are still alive and the USTF slobs are dead. You then get to wait another 2.5 years for a Hohmann transfer window back home, then spend 6.5 more years in transfer before you can disembark at home and leave the RSP navy.Your stellar 18 year military career consists of 2.5 years of training, 13 years of interplanetary transfer, 2.5 years of peacekeeping operations, and 15 minutes of sheer terror/combat. You can't quit at any time. Except for your training period, you are working literally every day of your military career. So, again, fuck no. Caveat emptor: you could probably get there faster using gravitational slingshots, but my point is that transfers to the outer solar system take a long time for a human regardless of the circumstances. That's just space... and war... and space war. How many people who stormed Omaha beach had trained and planned for years only to die the moment the ramp dropped? The travel times involved are mind-boggling on the scales we're accustomed to, just makes it part-and -parcel for the course. The realities of it makes me darkly amused at the campaign story? (With the war in the asteroid belt heating up, why am I PERSONALLY being diverted to deliver this VIP? OOOOHHHHH, because Mommy-dearest wants so-and-so to associate the safe return of her daughter with our family name. Yay! Neptune is ours! Wait, why am I being shipped off to Jupiter? Without my fleet? To take command from this poor sod... who was assassinated... shortly before I arrived... Mom? Are you having dynastic visions over there?)
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Post by pokington on Nov 13, 2016 16:26:22 GMT
That's just space... and war... and space war. How many people who stormed Omaha beach had trained and planned for years only to die the moment the ramp dropped? The travel times involved are mind-boggling on the scales we're accustomed to, just makes it part-and -parcel for the course. The realities of it makes me darkly amused at the campaign story? (With the war in the asteroid belt heating up, why am I PERSONALLY being diverted to deliver this VIP? OOOOHHHHH, because Mommy-dearest wants so-and-so to associate the safe return of her daughter with our family name. Yay! Neptune is ours! Wait, why am I being shipped off to Jupiter? Without my fleet? To take command from this poor sod... who was assassinated... shortly before I arrived... Mom? Are you having dynastic visions over there?) Agreed. My point is that space war sucks. A lot. More than terrestrial war. As part of a terrestrial military, I would never want to be part of a space war.
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Post by argonbalt on Nov 13, 2016 18:26:39 GMT
Fuck no. Presume you live on Mars and enlist in the RFP Navy. Given how highly trained crewmembers are, you probably have some kind of advanced degree in physics/engineering. You spend 2.5 years in training with your fellow crewmembers, learning your job and how to work as a team. Remember that two years is barely enough to become a buck non-commissioned officer in a terrestrial military, so it's really not a lot of experience. Uh oh! War! Time to go kill some poor USTA slobs! Except they are at Saturn. It takes you six and a half years to get there, because your ship weighs-in in the kiloton range, so you're not going to get much faster than a Hohmann transfer. You arrive at your destination and spend a month maneuvering through the Saturnian system before you engage the enemy. If you're dead, your efforts were pointless and you just spent the last 6.5 years of your life away from your friends and family only to die unceremoniously in space. Your family will never see your remains. If you are lucky and good, 15 minutes later, you are still alive and the USTF slobs are dead. You then get to wait another 2.5 years for a Hohmann transfer window back home, then spend 6.5 more years in transfer before you can disembark at home and leave the RSP navy.Your stellar 18 year military career consists of 2.5 years of training, 13 years of interplanetary transfer, 2.5 years of peacekeeping operations, and 15 minutes of sheer terror/combat. You can't quit at any time. Except for your training period, you are working literally every day of your military career. So, again, fuck no. Caveat emptor: you could probably get there faster using gravitational slingshots, but my point is that transfers to the outer solar system take a long time for a human regardless of the circumstances. I think that allot of this is false presumptions based on the campaign. The campaign itself obviously does a road-trip style to show off the system along a single persons perspective, actually ill just make a new thread for the specifics. Back to the point i believe most serving crewmen would likely deploy from more localised bases as that allows for better tactical deployment faster than transporting necessary ships and people for years across the void. In several cases in the campaign we are deployed simply because of more political or situational reasons. Like a laughably incompetent commander loosing the ENTIRE Jovian fleet and being assassinated. Also, through the use of proper drop tanks and in tanker meet ups im sure you could accelerate those meetings significantly. Also with the addition of even slightly better (and plausible) drives like orion, or deadalus, or even pure fusion-plasma you sould see a significant increase in speed. Realistically the whole NTR only system limits us to a 16th century travel time situation.
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Post by pokington on Nov 13, 2016 20:10:01 GMT
Back to the point i believe most serving crewmen would likely deploy from more localised bases as that allows for better tactical deployment faster than transporting necessary ships and people for years across the void. In several cases in the campaign we are deployed simply because of more political or situational reasons. Like a laughably incompetent commander loosing the ENTIRE Jovian fleet and being assassinated. Also, through the use of proper drop tanks and in tanker meet ups im sure you could accelerate those meetings significantly. Also with the addition of even slightly better (and plausible) drives like orion, or deadalus, or even pure fusion-plasma you sould see a significant increase in speed. Realistically the whole NTR only system limits us to a 16th century travel time situation. Serving in the local defense forces is, of course, a different matter. Essentially, it's the difference between a coast guard and a navy. What the coast guard lacks is an ability to project force like a navy. If your enemy is at Saturn and you are at Mars, you're looking at a long, long transfer. And, of course, the enemy has months-to-years to prepare for your arrival. Your forces had better be completely overwhelming when they depart -- if they are lucky it will be an even fight by the time they arrive. And hope your crew doesn't mutiny on the way. Tanker meetups aren't going to help at all -- the tankers themselves have to accelerate to that trajectory too, then get back home. You're better off with drop tanks. Drop tanks help up to a point. You can get going faster than a Hohmann transfer and shave a few years off the trip... but even a 0.01g brachistochrone transfer is well out of reach of a NERVA, even with many stages (and recall that those stages are getting exponentially larger, and these warships already have pretty abysmal acceleration). God forbid you want to go beyond Saturn -- simple Hohmann transfers beyond that take decades one-way -- and you'd be forced to use gravitational assists to get there in any reasonable time, drop tanks or no. Nuclear pulse propulsion does change this significantly, as brachistochrone trajectories become possible, but that's not what's presented in the game. NPP warships would probably look pretty different from the NTR ones in-game.
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Post by subunit on Nov 14, 2016 9:37:48 GMT
Let's see here... babysit some computers for 6-8 months while being sterilised by the 4GW nuke plant 20 meters away, enter combat for 60 seconds and either have the ship break up and spin off into space (hoping I get killed by Gs before asphyxiated), get burned alive 1000km away by lasers, or just get gibbed by railguns. Well... what's the pay like?
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