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Post by n2maniac on Nov 5, 2016 3:50:30 GMT
Okay, there is no possible way this would work or that it would impact the game, but I have to ask: why is deuterium cheaper than hydrogen? Hydrogen: 6.16c/kg Deuterium: 4.71c/kg Also to note xenon is cheaper than both: Xenon: 2.98c/kg Despite having a bit (~ 10^9) lower abundance. |
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Post by qswitched on Nov 6, 2016 2:31:26 GMT
Solar abundance is the main factor determining cost, but there are other factors. One in particular is outgassing, which is that hydrogen and other light gases leak out of their containers significantly. Also, cost to truck gases around the solar system is a factor (denser gases are easier to do). The most common materials like H2 (and most propellants) have an abundance cost so low it's essentially 0, so the cost is entirely non-abundance factors.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Nov 6, 2016 3:46:43 GMT
Huh, so that's why USTA priced the gas planets they ruled so much.
With fuel source this close, of course they can transport them cheaply.
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Post by jonen on Nov 6, 2016 3:51:15 GMT
Huh, so that's why USTA priced the gas planets they ruled so much. With fuel source this close, of course they can transport them cheaply. Plus they're in a dominant position to tax the other factions shipping ice and propellant into the inner system. |
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Post by cuddlefish on Nov 6, 2016 5:34:33 GMT
Having a stranglehold on propellant gives them a lot of leverage, definitely. It's a bit of a hydraulic state problem for any potential adversaries - they can choke the resources of polities which displease them, but at the same time removing them from power is a risk that you'll destroy the infrastructure everyone needs to survive.
Or, put another way - The Ice must flow.
runs for cover
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Post by jageriv on Nov 6, 2016 23:08:47 GMT
Solar abundance is the main factor determining cost, but there are other factors. One in particular is outgassing, which is that hydrogen and other light gases leak out of their containers significantly. Also, cost to truck gases around the solar system is a factor (denser gases are easier to do). The most common materials like H2 (and most propellants) have an abundance cost so low it's essentially 0, so the cost is entirely non-abundance factors.Huh, Huh, I didn't know you took anything but solar abundance into account. Hm, I'm sorta thinking of doing a mod (at some point, when the ground is laid and I have an idea how the current system keeps track of things) modifiying prices. Basically, my idea was to produce "faction" prices, based on abundance and various assumptions regarding production. For example, "Mars" would have its own price point on various materials, while "Titan" would have its own, separate price system. I figured that would allow some interesting "what ifs" to play with: how meaningful would certain price variations be? For example, say Titan could make methane for $1 a kg (since they pretty much have to just stick a hose in a lake then pipe it to the launcher with minimal refining) while Mars had a Methane cost of $30 dollars a kg, because they had to manufacture it at their poles and then ship it half way across the planet to the spaceport, and then chill it down to liquid form (mars seems warm enough you would still be piping it as a gas). Would that be such a meaningful price difference that Martian ships would have to be designed in a significantly different manner from Titan? Or would the advantages of Methane be so high combined with other concerns that Martian ships would still be methane-based similar to Titan, despite the other, higher price? That's the basics of my idea. It would be very interesting however, and helpful to my project, eventually, so hear more about how you figured out the economics of CODE, the various logic and assumptions you applied. What did you imagine 1 credit to represent? I think that would be an interesting blog post. Once you have the time, of course. Which may be a while, quite understandably. |
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Post by Dhan on Nov 7, 2016 5:15:11 GMT
Solar abundance is the main factor determining cost, but there are other factors. One in particular is outgassing, which is that hydrogen and other light gases leak out of their containers significantly. Also, cost to truck gases around the solar system is a factor (denser gases are easier to do). The most common materials like H2 (and most propellants) have an abundance cost so low it's essentially 0, so the cost is entirely non-abundance factors.Huh, Huh, I didn't know you took anything but solar abundance into account. Hm, I'm sorta thinking of doing a mod (at some point, when the ground is laid and I have an idea how the current system keeps track of things) modifiying prices. Basically, my idea was to produce "faction" prices, based on abundance and various assumptions regarding production. For example, "Mars" would have its own price point on various materials, while "Titan" would have its own, separate price system. I figured that would allow some interesting "what ifs" to play with: how meaningful would certain price variations be? For example, say Titan could make methane for $1 a kg (since they pretty much have to just stick a hose in a lake then pipe it to the launcher with minimal refining) while Mars had a Methane cost of $30 dollars a kg, because they had to manufacture it at their poles and then ship it half way across the planet to the spaceport, and then chill it down to liquid form (mars seems warm enough you would still be piping it as a gas). Would that be such a meaningful price difference that Martian ships would have to be designed in a significantly different manner from Titan? Or would the advantages of Methane be so high combined with other concerns that Martian ships would still be methane-based similar to Titan, despite the other, higher price? That's the basics of my idea. It would be very interesting however, and helpful to my project, eventually, so hear more about how you figured out the economics of CODE, the various logic and assumptions you applied. What did you imagine 1 credit to represent? I think that would be an interesting blog post. Once you have the time, of course. Which may be a while, quite understandably. I don't mean to take wind out of your sails, but how would this change affect the gameplay, strategically or otherwise? Does that mean that the ships you use in orbit around Mars/Titan would be cheaper as a result of the mod? It seems to me like there needs to be some sort of strategic manufacturing mechanic before something like this can be applied. |
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Post by jageriv on Nov 11, 2016 19:47:58 GMT
I don't mean to take wind out of your sails, but how would this change affect the gameplay, strategically or otherwise? Does that mean that the ships you use in orbit around Mars/Titan would be cheaper as a result of the mod? It seems to me like there needs to be some sort of strategic manufacturing mechanic before something like this can be applied. Well, the idea was that in Module/ship creator, you would add in a drop down menu to select which price system you wanted to design the current ship with: So for example you could say "this is a mars built ship" and select that option in the ship creator, and the prices would adjust to that. Likewise, you could say "how much would the price change if I declared these Titan built" and select that from the menu option. That was my current idea of how to implement it. |
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