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Post by redparadize on Oct 21, 2016 13:51:05 GMT
I am thinking I probably shouldn't post my fleet too early. It might result in people building specifically to beat it. If you read post I did lately you will notice, I already showed my color on this. But I have some new twist to. I think it would be possible to hard counter my fleet, but at the cost of being exposed to other tactic. It is a formal challenge. Nothing prevent you to update your fleet and post again, but your first fleet will be considered as a defeated. Lets the arm race begin! Edit: Question for everyone, do you think it would be a good idea to decide winner based on popular vote? We could do this by having people add "likes" to the design they think would win, and contabilize the result, I checked and we can add/remove our "likes" at will. or maybe a simple pool would do too.
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Post by elouda on Oct 21, 2016 14:27:58 GMT
Maybe do a cutoff date and then a separate poll thread to vote on the submissions? We could then do various rounds with different rules - higher cost limits, weight limits, tech limits (chemical engines only?), etc.
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Post by redparadize on Oct 21, 2016 14:41:23 GMT
This is just the first iteration of the contest. I am sure there will be some conclusion to it that will improve the next one. Will see! The end date is a good idea, Next Sunday maybe? weekly challenge?
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Post by beta on Oct 21, 2016 15:06:42 GMT
Here's an entry: Fleet concept of battle would be to separate into two separate fleets - the 4 Missile Corvette with the Destroyer, the 2 Gun Corvettes with the Laser Corvette. Plan of action would be to use the missile corvettes to shoot down drones/missiles fired at either fleet and to use offensive missiles to attempt to degrade the enemy fleet. The gun corvette fleet would then setup in a high-speed flyby of the enemy fleet aiming to get into weapons range as fast as possible to dump their rounds into targets. After the gun corvette fleet has completed their flyby, the destroyer fleet will make the final intercept to attempt to finish the enemy fleet off. Biggest concerns for this fleet would be large amounts of missiles/drones as defensive missiles stores are 800 missiles, and if you are desperate, the 400 offensive missiles. After that, you must rely on the destroyer/laser corvette's 13MW lasers and (mostly broken) flak railgun to intercept enemy munitions. Other concern would be the enemy fleet running the attacking gun corvettes out of dV, so careful orbit planning would be required. Wouldn't be much fun to have a billion missile ships and a few decoy launching ships, so I came up with a more aggressive fleet design. Link to pastebin of all the custom content required: pastebin.com/BwVype5kPics of weapons and ships in the spoiler:
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Post by redparadize on Oct 21, 2016 15:21:31 GMT
Do we want all the ship designs present or just the fleet overview? It's quite a few things to show if that's the case ... And that's why i didn't went for a 1Gc challenge! Ship, drone, missiles and relevant weapons. Stuff that will help others to judge your fleet. We can skip ammo box and stuff, picture only for whats relevant. Just type the rest. We will assume good faith.
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Post by goduranus on Oct 21, 2016 16:12:28 GMT
Ok here's my fleet, totaling 5.33kt and 94.6Mc My tactic is to launch overwhelming number of missile and drones while keeping the main ship away from the fight, I'll probably change this to have more delta V if it comes to PVP, but right now 4.27kms is sufficient for singleplayer and I didn't change it. I usually just send a single cluster missile carrier to provide point-defense saturation while a single gun-drone carrier deploys its formation to go for the kill, this tactic defeats any stock enemy fleets many times over. This is the main ship, notable for having non-gimballed molybdenum RCS thrusters that are very resistant to proximity blasts, while its two of decoy systems ensures that enemy missiles will never score a direct hit. it's weapon systems in the screenshot are 30 second decoy launcher with 30 ammo Medium Frag missile launchers with 400 ammo, 4km/s deltaV Upgraded 9.5Mt Nuclear Devastator missiles with 20 ammo, 6km/s deltaV Upgraded 1.47Mt Nuclear Striker missiles with 400 ammo, 2km/s deltaV Fission powered decoy missile launcher with 30 ammo 40 Cluster Missile carriers that each has a 30mm cannon that has a 20km max range, and contain a total of 1600 mini-missiles 20 drone carriers that each has a 7.54km/s railgun that has a 64km max range, and contain a total of 600 small drones that each has a 30mm cannon Also a 100kw shitty laser set to 250km range, to force enemy missiles into battle from far away. The Cluster missile carrier The gun-drone carrier The gun-drone itself Attachments:UserDesigns.txt (97.44 KB)
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Post by redparadize on Oct 21, 2016 17:39:13 GMT
Nice stuff! Some interesting discovery as well.
Beta: That broadside grouped guns are interesting as a concept. Does the armor is all around or mostly one sided?
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Post by magusunion on Oct 21, 2016 17:41:55 GMT
I really don't think the AI do these designs justice. And I also wish this game had a better organization method of inserting/removing blueprints and such. Just fought Beta's Fleet on the "Force Projection" Map. The AI didn't spam missiles as well as it could, and it also didn't split the fleet. Toward the end of the engagement, I basically brawled the Missile Corvette and the Gun Corvette apart, and suffered minimal damage on both hulls. I do love the complexity of this game, since not only does ship design become a factor, but fleet tactics and resourcefulness as well. Hopefully we can get true PvP soon. Attachments:UserDesigns.txt (41.25 KB)
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Post by beta on Oct 21, 2016 17:47:48 GMT
The armour is the same all around. Grouping the guns on one side helped immensely against super-lasers - they have to burn through the farside hull to get to your weapons. When you get in range, you can roll/change orientation to attack.
Yeah, I find the AI doesn't do so well with certain designs. If they have medium to long range railguns or coilguns, they seem to do best.
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Post by redparadize on Oct 21, 2016 17:59:04 GMT
Yeah, Thats the reason why I did not chose to do combat vs AI...
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Post by goduranus on Oct 21, 2016 18:03:58 GMT
Beta you can get away with lighter turrets if you use boron reaction wheels runnin at higher rpm, since the reaction wheels are the heaviest bits of your turrets right now.
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Post by ross128 on Oct 21, 2016 18:26:24 GMT
Alright, after quite a bit of tweaking and streamlining, here's my fleet: It's a bit low on dV, but as you can see it's a stand-off fleet that consists entirely of drone carriers and missile launchers. The Missile Support Ship, despite its unassuming name and paltry cost, is really the backbone of the fleet. Its thousands of missiles provide the mainstay of the fleet's general-purpose firepower, screen drones against PD and interception, and intercept incoming ordinance. If anything the other ships are there to support it, with the Minuteman and LCDC bringing enhanced-lethality options to take care of targets that may be difficult for the MSS to crack, while the Stiletto Carrier provides the fleet with point defense/flares. I definitely don't expect the AI to wrap its head around how to play it, since I don't think it would quite grasp the volume that the micromissiles are intended to be fired in, the importance of screening the drones, or the fact that the Stiletto drones are supposed to stay with the fleet to protect it. Relevant Blueprints: Light Cannon Drone Carrier: CraftBlueprint Light Cannon Drone Carrier Modules 7.00 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 2 55.237 null 0 6.20 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 0 null 0 10.0 MW 108mm Cannon Drone Launcher 1 23.135 null 1.58 4x0.5 Diamond Radiator 2 31.477 10.0 MW 108mm Cannon Drone Launcher 0 10x5 Amorphous Carbon Radiator 2 9.3082 7.00 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 45 Crew Module 2 1 53.707 null 0 600 kW 3mm Turreted Railgun 6 99.673 null 0 6x3 Aluminum Radiator 2 48.08 45 Crew Module 2 3.19 10000x 3mm Railgun Round 2 12 55.517 null 0 10000x 3mm Railgun Round 2 12 55.767 null 0 10000x 3mm Railgun Round 2 12 55.267 null 0 5.00 m x 0 m Spacer 1 179.6 null 0 8.00 m Diameter 2.00 cm Radiation Shield 1 53.957 null 0 10x 108mm Cannon Drone 3 53.207 null 0 1.000 kt Methane Tank 2 1 0 null 0 10x 108mm Cannon Drone 2 54.207 null 0 10x 108mm Cannon Drone 2 55.207 null 0 6x3 Aluminum Radiator 2 109.55 45 Crew Module 2 3.19 Armor ArmorLayers Boron 0.01 0 0 1 1 Silica Aerogel 0.02 0 0 1 1 Stiletto Carrier: CraftBlueprint Stilletto Carrier Modules 7.00 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 2 120.62 null 0 6.20 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 0 null 0 10.0 MW Stilletto Launcher 1 31.959 null 1.59 2x1 Silicon Carbide Radiator 2 21.762 10.0 MW Stilletto Launcher 0 6x3 Aluminum Radiator 2 74.108 45 Crew Module 2 3.19 10x5 Amorphous Carbon Radiator 2 7.7828 7.00 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 45 Crew Module 2 1 51.88 null 0 6x3 Aluminum Radiator 2 67.426 45 Crew Module 2 3.19 5.00 m x 0 m Spacer 1 179.6 null 0 8.00 m Diameter 2.00 cm Radiation Shield 1 56.883 null 0 5x Stilletto 1 61.886 null 0 1.000 kt Methane Tank 2 1 0 null 0 100 t Methane Tank 2 3 91.253 null 0 600 kW 3mm Turreted Railgun 6 123.29 null 0 10000x 3mm Railgun Round 2 12 123.29 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Boron 0.001 0.4 0 1 1 Silica Aerogel 0.02 0 0 1 1
Missile Support Ship: CraftBlueprint Missile Support Ship Modules 10.3 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 161.05 null 0 10x5 Diamond Radiator 2 4.7992 10.3 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 2x5 Diamond Radiator 2 62.116 20 Crew Module 2 0 6.20 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 0 null 0 20 Crew Module 2 3 118.18 null 0 50.0 kW Flak Micromissile FH Launcher 4 41.832 null 0 4x0.5 Diamond Radiator 2 46.045 50.0 kW Flak Micromissile FH Launcher 0 600 kW 3mm Turreted Railgun 6 66.102 null 0 10000x 3mm Railgun Round 2 18 167.16 null 0 8.00 m Diameter 2.00 cm Radiation Shield 1 0.25 null 0 300x Flak Micromissile FH 2 20 124.42 null 0 50.0 kW NEFP Micromissile OH2 Launcher 4 31.985 null 0 4x0.5 Diamond Radiator 2 58.24 50.0 kW NEFP Micromissile OH2 Launcher 0 50.0 kW KKV Micromissile FH Launcher 4 37.001 null 0 4x0.5 Diamond Radiator 2 50.076 50.0 kW KKV Micromissile FH Launcher 0 300x KKV Micromissile FH 2 10 136.63 null 0 3.00 MW Titanium:Sapphire Violet Laser 6 12.253 null 0 2x5 Diamond Radiator 2 24.009 3.00 MW Titanium:Sapphire Violet Laser 0 50.0 cm x 0 m Spacer 1 167.66 null 0 50.0 cm x 0 m Spacer 1 168.66 null 0 2x5 Diamond Radiator 2 53.612 20 Crew Module 2 0 300x NEFP Micromissile OH2 10 121.3 null 0 100 t Methane Tank 3 4 0 null 0 100 t Methane Tank 2 1 -0.5 null 0 100 t Methane Tank 3 2 119.74 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Vanadium Chromium Steel 0.02 0 0.77 1 1 Boron 0.015 0 0 1 1 Boron 0.002 0.6 0 1 1 Silica Aerogel 0.01 0 0 1 1
Siloship Minuteman: CraftBlueprint Siloship Minuteman Modules 7.00 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 2 167.66 null 0 20x4 Diamond Radiator 2 6.3692 7.00 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 10x3 Diamond Radiator 2 67.131 20 Crew Module 2 0 6.20 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 2 0 null 0 20 Crew Module 2 3 118.37 null 0 100 t Methane Tank 2 1 118.31 null 0 3.00 MW 1.4kt NEFP Launcher 2 60.393 null 0 2x5 Diamond Radiator 2 53.107 3.00 MW 1.4kt NEFP Launcher 0 600 kW 3mm Turreted Railgun 6 73.572 null 0 10000x 3mm Railgun Round 2 18 167.16 null 0 100x 1.4kt NEFP 2 131.43 null 0 3.00 MW Titanium:Sapphire Violet Laser 6 11.897 null 0 10x5 Diamond Radiator 2 35.069 3.00 MW Titanium:Sapphire Violet Laser 0 50.0 kW Flak Micromissile FH Launcher 6 26.258 null 0 4x0.5 Diamond Radiator 2 72.791 50.0 kW Flak Micromissile FH Launcher 0 300x Flak Micromissile FH 2 5 144.42 null 0 8.00 m Diameter 2.00 cm Radiation Shield 1 118.43 null 0 100 t Methane Tank 3 3 118.34 null 0 100 t Methane Tank 3 2 118.4 null 0 1.50 m x 0 m Spacer 1 168.16 null 0 Armor ArmorLayers Vanadium Chromium Steel 0.015 0 0.905 1 1 Boron 0.0025 0.6 0 1 1 Silica Aerogel 0.01 0 0 1 1
If you actually want to build them, the full UserDesigns file is attached here: UserDesigns.txt (124.53 KB)
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Post by magusunion on Oct 21, 2016 18:38:18 GMT
The armour is the same all around. Grouping the guns on one side helped immensely against super-lasers - they have to burn through the farside hull to get to your weapons. When you get in range, you can roll/change orientation to attack. Funny story: So everyone but your missile corvette's lost their engines during my bombardment engagements. Which basically meant that I could indiscriminately out range most of your "one-sided" weapons, and inhibit your ships from rolling to attack. This is why I REALLY don't like gimbaled thrusters in this game: losing them means you lose all sense of maneuverability. I'd almost take KSP's version of monopropellant jets over what this game offers. So, yeah.. thought you might want to know.
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Post by redparadize on Oct 21, 2016 18:39:14 GMT
I appreciate the data posting. But can you post more picture? I would prefer if we don't have to install everything to judge fleets and ship. Thanks in advance!
magusunion: AI fighting is not the proper way to judge. In fact without PvP we can only extrapolate result.
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Post by magusunion on Oct 21, 2016 19:03:21 GMT
I appreciate the data posting. But can you post more picture? I would prefer if we don't have to install everything to judge fleets and ship. Thanks in advance! magusunion: AI fighting is not the proper way to judge. In fact without PvP we can only extrapolate result. Sorry if I came off as condescending. I'll have to do a new battle run and take proper notes of the fleet engagements. Course, I can tell how early alpha this game is by how it doesn't like to deal with "improper txt file formating". Just crashed my game three times trying to look at different designs... Oh well..
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