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Post by goduranus on Oct 17, 2016 16:02:21 GMT
So I have this ship that launches drones that launches more drones with guns, I let the AI use it, and it sent a wave of 20 drones as usual, but these are carrier drones which had 300 gun drones with them. I've tried every trick I know, but I always get pwned. Does anyone have a good counter to massed drone attacks?
These are custom drones with aerogel armor, so nuking them like with stock drones did not work.
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Post by argonbalt on Oct 17, 2016 16:18:03 GMT
Laser Destroyer->maximum range->no less than fourteen turrets with at least 1 MW of juice at their ideal->Target guns,Engines,Radiators, or in your case drone launch device. Back up with high particulate flak warheads, rail gun seasoning to taste.
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Post by blothorn on Oct 17, 2016 17:19:51 GMT
Cannot target the drone launch device because drones are usually launched on the strategic map so the carrier is not in play. My experience is that lasers are fairly ineffective against well-armored drones (e.g. 5-10cm of silica aerogel on the turret, thickened amorphous carbon radiators)--are 14 1MW lasers that much more effective than, say, 1 500MW laser? And rail guns versus drones is almost always a losing battle; they can hit you long before you can hit them effectively.
My recommendation would be more/larger nukes; you are looking to fry radiators more than the armor itself (which means you may need shots from multiple sides, depending on the extent of their redundancy.
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 17, 2016 18:37:01 GMT
Cannot target the drone launch device because drones are usually launched on the strategic map so the carrier is not in play. My experience is that lasers are fairly ineffective against well-armored drones (e.g. 5-10cm of silica aerogel on the turret, thickened amorphous carbon radiators)--are 14 1MW lasers that much more effective than, say, 1 500MW laser? And rail guns versus drones is almost always a losing battle; they can hit you long before you can hit them effectively. My recommendation would be more/larger nukes; you are looking to fry radiators more than the armor itself (which means you may need shots from multiple sides, depending on the extent of their redundancy. Pretty much this. It is really easy to protect anything at all from suffering internal damage from a nuclear weapon. The way nukes kill more or less all ships is by destroying their radiators. As such you just want a decent number of nukes to go off on all sides of the enemy ship or drone in order to destroy them. In addition against missiles you usually kill them by taking out their engines. This is actually pretty easy. Just blow up even a single nuke behind the formation of missiles and you'll destroy all of them as engines are horrifically vulnerable to nuke detonations anywhere near them with line of sight.
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Post by bigbombr on Oct 17, 2016 21:01:21 GMT
Hundreds of flak missiles intercepting them before your vessel gets into play. Flak missiles can be very light and cheap,making them extremely spammable. My 'main' war vessel carries 1000 custom flak missiles (in addition to other weapon systems, like a 1 GW laser, and 100 custom gun toting drones).
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Post by goduranus on Oct 18, 2016 9:09:30 GMT
I found a really gamy solution to this situation, basically, you just make a drone with laser and set it to engage at 250km. Launch that 250km drone with some dogfighting drones or mini missiles, and just park that drone fleet in the same orbit as your ship.
The since the drones' engage envelope covers your main ship, your main ship never enters into battle, and you can basically just waste the enemy drone fleet's deltaV dry by having it battle your drone fleets over and over again.
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Post by redparadize on Oct 18, 2016 17:20:07 GMT
So far, I can't really hard counter my own gun drone + missile drone combo. Not with a simple solution at least. So I guess your best bet is to not let them get near you!
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Post by oprean on Oct 18, 2016 18:25:25 GMT
So I have this ship that launches drones that launches more drones with guns, I let the AI use it, and it sent a wave of 20 drones as usual, but these are carrier drones which had 300 gun drones with them. I've tried every trick I know, but I always get pwned. Does anyone have a good counter to massed drone attacks? These are custom drones with aerogel armor, so nuking them like with stock drones did not work. Friend, can you post the txt containing the design? i would love to take a look at them, but the go-to method to fight drones is to abuse the drone AI, as they can't prioritize dangerous enemies, they consider a near dry drone floating in space as dangerous as any other capital ship and happily waste their fuel chasing it, also, the AI can't end battles at certain distances..., though that would increase the difficulty in dealing with mass drones.
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Post by nivik on Oct 18, 2016 20:34:27 GMT
So I have this ship that launches drones that launches more drones with guns, I let the AI use it, and it sent a wave of 20 drones as usual, but these are carrier drones which had 300 gun drones with them. I've tried every trick I know, but I always get pwned. Does anyone have a good counter to massed drone attacks? These are custom drones with aerogel armor, so nuking them like with stock drones did not work. I'm gonna think out loud here. Bear with me. The issue we have is overwhelming concentration of effective firepower. We need to mitigate this. Possibilities include: - Reduce the total amount of firepower (destroy drones)
- Disperse firepower between more targets (counter-drones/decoys)
- Reduce effectiveness of firepower (improve armor or evasion)
There's been a lot of theory about option #1 already. We can most easily make a drone combat ineffective by A) destroying its weapon, B) destroying is power generation, or C) killing its mobility. A and B imply lasers. C implies a projectile kill of the tanks, or a delayed nuke which damages the drones' engines. I think I'd lean towards the AOE engine kills, if it were me, by enabling the delay mode on my nuclear missiles. I don't consider option #3 above to be a realistic one. Drones outmaneuver capital ships and armor suffers too much heating and weakening from repeated impacts to reasonably weather a projectile storm like the one you're talking about. So my recommendation (maybe!) is target proliferation: increasing the number of targets the enemy drones have to chose between, in the hope that they split their fire. If the enemy drones will target other missiles/drones, this is easy. If they're configured to only target ships, the counter-drones can still perform mission #1: engaging and destroying other drones before they reach your main fleet. Their projectile weapons will be able to punch through the light armor that most drones carry, which will score mobility kills that prevent the enemy's drones from getting weapons on target. So...a layered defense, I think. High-acceleration, high dV nuclear missiles set to delayed detonation to knock out engines, with slower, small, throwaway/single-use drones to score more kills. Lasers can then focus on drones that survive the first two countermeasures. Railguns optimized for accuracy against small targets at long range with their max range disabled may help, too, but in my experience the tapered nose of drones and the small cross-section makes rails pretty ineffective until it's too late.
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 18, 2016 20:41:48 GMT
So I have this ship that launches drones that launches more drones with guns, I let the AI use it, and it sent a wave of 20 drones as usual, but these are carrier drones which had 300 gun drones with them. I've tried every trick I know, but I always get pwned. Does anyone have a good counter to massed drone attacks? These are custom drones with aerogel armor, so nuking them like with stock drones did not work. I'm gonna think out loud here. Bear with me. The issue we have is overwhelming concentration of effective firepower. We need to mitigate this. Possibilities include: - Reduce the total amount of firepower (destroy drones)
- Disperse firepower between more targets (counter-drones/decoys)
- Reduce effectiveness of firepower (improve armor or evasion)
There's been a lot of theory about option #1 already. We can most easily make a drone combat ineffective by A) destroying its weapon, B) destroying is power generation, or C) killing its mobility. A and B imply lasers. C implies a projectile kill of the tanks, or a delayed nuke which damages the drones' engines. I think I'd lean towards the AOE engine kills, if it were me, by enabling the delay mode on my nuclear missiles. I don't consider option #3 above to be a realistic one. Drones outmaneuver capital ships and armor suffers too much heating and weakening from repeated impacts to reasonably weather a projectile storm like the one you're talking about. So my recommendation (maybe!) is target proliferation: increasing the number of targets the enemy drones have to chose between, in the hope that they split their fire. If the enemy drones will target other missiles/drones, this is easy. If they're configured to only target ships, the counter-drones can still perform mission #1: engaging and destroying other drones before they reach your main fleet. Their projectile weapons will be able to punch through the light armor that most drones carry, which will score mobility kills that prevent the enemy's drones from getting weapons on target. So...a layered defense, I think. High-acceleration, high dV nuclear missiles set to delayed detonation to knock out engines, with slower, small, throwaway/single-use drones to score more kills. Lasers can then focus on drones that survive the first two countermeasures. Railguns optimized for accuracy against small targets at long range with their max range disabled may help, too, but in my experience the tapered nose of drones and the small cross-section makes rails pretty ineffective until it's too late. Actually over in the cap ship armor thread we more or less have a solution to massed gunfire. In short using a huge amount of low density armor like microlattice or the aerogels provide a near total immunity to most weapon fire. It is light weight but massive. In addition it is capable of standing up to a surprising amount of sustained fire. The only weapon that I have made that is effective against it is a stupid broken 1g rail gun throwing a massive number of shells down range at 10s of km/s and laser accurate at all ranges. All in all a really broken rail gun and the only thing I have that gets through the armor with a prolonged bombardment. It is also very light weight as far as armor goes.
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Post by beta on Oct 18, 2016 20:47:40 GMT
1 for 1 exchange of enemy drones for defensive missile seems to work OK. The concept remains sound even after potentially fixing the poor targeting algorithms. Especially with the new limits on fuel tanks and engines. You can get 10kg frag missiles that cost 50cr or less. The smallest drones will be larger than the smallest missiles because they require power generation, weapons, radiators, control, fuel, and engines. Missiles do not require many of those, so you can carry more missiles for equivalent mass.
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Post by nivik on Oct 18, 2016 21:19:57 GMT
Actually over in the cap ship armor thread we more or less have a solution to massed gunfire. In short using a huge amount of low density armor like microlattice or the aerogels provide a near total immunity to most weapon fire. It is light weight but massive. In addition it is capable of standing up to a surprising amount of sustained fire. The only weapon that I have made that is effective against it is a stupid broken 1g rail gun throwing a massive number of shells down range at 10s of km/s and laser accurate at all ranges. All in all a really broken rail gun and the only thing I have that gets through the armor with a prolonged bombardment. It is also very light weight as far as armor goes. Hmm. I'd skimmed that, but I apparently didn't pick up on quite how effective it is. I'll have to change my armor accordingly and see what I can do to swing the pendulum the other way. >:3
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Post by captinjoehenry on Oct 19, 2016 0:50:58 GMT
Actually over in the cap ship armor thread we more or less have a solution to massed gunfire. In short using a huge amount of low density armor like microlattice or the aerogels provide a near total immunity to most weapon fire. It is light weight but massive. In addition it is capable of standing up to a surprising amount of sustained fire. The only weapon that I have made that is effective against it is a stupid broken 1g rail gun throwing a massive number of shells down range at 10s of km/s and laser accurate at all ranges. All in all a really broken rail gun and the only thing I have that gets through the armor with a prolonged bombardment. It is also very light weight as far as armor goes. Hmm. I'd skimmed that, but I apparently didn't pick up on quite how effective it is. I'll have to change my armor accordingly and see what I can do to swing the pendulum the other way. >:3 Well if I am recalling right even my fairly affordable armor setup is fully capable of resisting hits from my stupid silly coil gun throwing 150kg rounds down range at 19.2 km/s. Almost all the time they did not penetrate at all.
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