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Post by Enderminion on Mar 23, 2017 11:43:00 GMT
or you know, you could sit just outside the range of venus forts and nuke the living c*ap out of anyone who tries to leave, that is called a siege.
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 23, 2017 16:07:19 GMT
Yeah, that seems ludicrous. How the hell do you *lose* an ocean? You would be surprised how easy it is when you are not paying attention. I recommend putting a RFID tag on it, or even better a GPS tag in case someone takes it away by mistake. Seriously though, the idea is that runaway greenhouse effect causes oceans to start evaporating, putting more water vapour in the atmosphere, increasing the greenhouse effect further, until oceans boil away completely. It is suspected to be what happened to Venus. The reason there is no more water vapour on Venus is that in high altitude, UV from the Sun break water molecules, and hydrogen is light enough to escape, leaving only oxygen. Incidentally, it is also why an exoplanet with oxygen signature may not be a sign of alien life. However, neither would have had time to happen in CoaDE's timescale, so there should still be some oceans left. (I still recommend giving up the unrealistic accidental runaway greenhouse effect and replace it with a more credible accidental runaway snowball effect, as this did happen once in Earth past) Also subterranean cities may still exist as for many, it would be industrially easier than throwing them in space. Many would still have been thrown in space as all available solutions would be used. Those cities would become a minor player in the System due to being deep in a gravity well, under a scalding, thick and possibly mildly corrosive atmosphere, making surface-to-orbit traffic expensive. Some may even be progressively abandoned as people use said light traffic to escape them. Or they may have all (or most) failed since, because giant emergency bunkers may face unplanned long-term problems. Military-wise, destroying them or static defences would require the same tactic than for Venus: using massive projectiles sent from beyond their engagement range. It would be a significant investment compared to destroying other habitats, so there may be some advantage there, particularly as hidden, buried/underwater defences (as those evoked on Mars) would be hard to locate (or destroy with a massive, planet-wide bombardment with millions of massive projectiles). Could there be another secret, isolated faction on Earth??? We shall not see that soon as qswitch is busy updating the game... ...and maybe never! Going back to KSP for now.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 23, 2017 17:32:50 GMT
OHHH SLBMs hitting orbital habs could be a mission
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Post by goduranus on Mar 24, 2017 8:32:39 GMT
Well good luck launching ships out of Venus, or receiving any supply canisters, or dissipating the heat from any surface habitats.
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 24, 2017 15:32:07 GMT
Well good luck launching ships out of Venus, or receiving any supply canisters, or dissipating the heat from any surface habitats. 1. I'd imagine some sort of extremely durable fan propeller. Like those turbofan back at home. 2. Venera 10 did survive the landing, and we now have computer that could survive on the surface of Venus. Shouldn't be problem. 3. This is the real problem. Nowhere to transfer heat to. Good luck.
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Post by thorneel on Mar 24, 2017 19:50:06 GMT
3. This is the real problem. Nowhere to transfer heat to. Good luck. You will need a heat pump, which means constant energy drain and moving pieces that need to never fail. Doable, but I wouldn't live there...
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 24, 2017 20:30:54 GMT
dig into the planet a little bit, a few hundred feet should be good for a heat-sink, might even find water or ice deep underground
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Post by Durandal on Mar 24, 2017 20:41:03 GMT
dig into the planet a little bit, a few hundred feet should be good for a heat-sink, might even find water or ice deep underground On Venus? I doubt that.
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Post by argonbalt on Mar 24, 2017 22:10:29 GMT
dig into the planet a little bit, a few hundred feet should be good for a heat-sink, might even find water or ice deep underground On Venus? I doubt that. Especially taking into account the plethora of basalt deposits on the surface, i wonder if we could draw some conclusions. Now i will fully admit that like many things i am generally interested in but not a practising geologist . With that out of the way lets see if i can ham-fistedly work through this: The average surface temperature is:864 degrees Fahrenheit (462 degrees Celsius). Coverting to joules that comes out to 1640822.86 j, or 1.64 Mj. On top of this there is about 90 atm of pressure, which comes out to 9119.25 kilo-pascals of pressure. next we need the specific heat of basalt rock which is 0.2(kcal/(kg oC)) or 0.84(kJ/(kg K)) and the density Basalt 2.4 - 3.1 (103 kg/m3) now this is where i am surpassed by far more learned folk, but i suppose you'd need to take combined heat and pressure measurements apply them to the basalt rock, add several hundred metres, then try to find the mean temperature. Then hoping that it is not already still several hundred degrees anymore, you could find out if a heat dump is even possible 1 and 2 if it is possible, how much heat your external features of your base need to dump away so as not to disintegrate utterly(ignoring as i have the potential effects the acidic atmosphere could also have).
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Post by Durandal on Mar 25, 2017 0:04:28 GMT
Especially taking into account the plethora of basalt deposits on the surface, i wonder if we could draw some conclusions. Now i will fully admit that like many things i am generally interested in but not a practising geologist . With that out of the way lets see if i can ham-fistedly work through this: The average surface temperature is:864 degrees Fahrenheit (462 degrees Celsius). Coverting to joules that comes out to 1640822.86 j, or 1.64 Mj. On top of this there is about 90 atm of pressure, which comes out to 9119.25 kilo-pascals of pressure. next we need the specific heat of basalt rock which is 0.2(kcal/(kg oC)) or 0.84(kJ/(kg K)) and the density Basalt 2.4 - 3.1 (103 kg/m3) now this is where i am surpassed by far more learned folk, but i suppose you'd need to take combined heat and pressure measurements apply them to the basalt rock, add several hundred metres, then try to find the mean temperature. Then hoping that it is not already still several hundred degrees anymore, you could find out if a heat dump is even possible 1 and 2 if it is possible, how much heat your external features of your base need to dump away so as not to disintegrate utterly(ignoring as i have the potential effects the acidic atmosphere could also have). I'm not going to try to tackle that math, but even if there was frozen water on under the surface how in the worlds is anyone going to build a base down there? They'd need a protective enclosure to cover the construction site at the bare minimum, and without direct access to this underground ice the construction equipment would be destroyed.
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Post by goduranus on Mar 25, 2017 0:43:21 GMT
It probably gets even hotter if you dig down, don't think there will be any liquid water or livable caves down there.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 25, 2017 2:16:01 GMT
so I was wrong, my line of thinking was the 10-40ft underground on earth irl is a cool 60-70F, no matter where you dig
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Post by argonbalt on Mar 25, 2017 3:20:28 GMT
so I was wrong, my line of thinking was the 10-40ft underground on earth irl is a cool 60-70F, no matter where you dig Earth also has inherent liquid and air cooling cycles, so i don't know if the conclusion is really as easily transferable.
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Post by newageofpower on Mar 25, 2017 14:05:24 GMT
Especially taking into account the plethora of basalt deposits on the surface, i wonder if we could draw some conclusions. Now i will fully admit that like many things i am generally interested in but not a practising geologist . With that out of the way lets see if i can ham-fistedly work through this: The average surface temperature is:864 degrees Fahrenheit (462 degrees Celsius). Coverting to joules that comes out to 1640822.86 j, or 1.64 Mj. On top of this there is about 90 atm of pressure, which comes out to 9119.25 kilo-pascals of pressure. next we need the specific heat of basalt rock which is 0.2(kcal/(kg oC)) or 0.84(kJ/(kg K)) and the density Basalt 2.4 - 3.1 (103 kg/m3) now this is where i am surpassed by far more learned folk, but i suppose you'd need to take combined heat and pressure measurements apply them to the basalt rock, add several hundred metres, then try to find the mean temperature. Then hoping that it is not already still several hundred degrees anymore, you could find out if a heat dump is even possible 1 and 2 if it is possible, how much heat your external features of your base need to dump away so as not to disintegrate utterly(ignoring as i have the potential effects the acidic atmosphere could also have). argonbalt starts math always unfinished toaster
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 25, 2017 14:05:46 GMT
what?
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