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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 22, 2017 9:56:48 GMT
I'm not sure building submarine in Titan's ocean would be a good idea because Titan's ocean is made out of PETROL FUEL. Unless your submarine has leaks, it should be safe considering there's no oxygen for the hydrocarbons to combust. A feature not a bug considering its free fuel! And that means longer operating times for the missile subs and cheaper missiles Titan and the environmental groups would like to protest.
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Post by thorneel on Mar 22, 2017 10:23:42 GMT
When Venus became a runaway greenhouse planet, its original surface melt away due to immense heat created by immense amount of greenhouse gas (water vapor/carbon dioxide). CDE!Earth would likely follow this, and is now likely even hotter than today Venus. How would Earth ultimately end up even hotter? It (probably) has roughly the same initial composition, but it receives quite a bit less energy from the Sun. Also, it is possible to build Venus-resistant stuff. Recently, NASA apparently got computer chips that can work at Venus temperatures, which was so far the biggest problem. I wouldn't recommend living there, though.
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 22, 2017 10:46:13 GMT
When Venus became a runaway greenhouse planet, its original surface melt away due to immense heat created by immense amount of greenhouse gas (water vapor/carbon dioxide). CDE!Earth would likely follow this, and is now likely even hotter than today Venus. How would Earth ultimately end up even hotter? It (probably) has roughly the same initial composition, but it receives quite a bit less energy from the Sun. Also, it is possible to build Venus-resistant stuff. Recently, NASA apparently got computer chips that can work at Venus temperatures, which was so far the biggest problem. I wouldn't recommend living there, though. We don't know how much water Venus had in the past, and how much of it is left there. It is implied that Venus had lost significant amount of its atmosphere due to the solar wind, and if it is so, initially after losing its water to the atmosphere, Venus would have extremely hot surface temperature, thus the molten surface. (I remembered reading this from somewhere... Can't remember.) I also noticed how Venus' surface is much flatter than Earth's. If this Venus' surface is the original one, there should be traces of continents left. (Speculation)
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Post by vegemeister on Mar 22, 2017 18:02:54 GMT
I'm not sure building submarine in Titan's ocean would be a good idea because Titan's ocean is made out of PETROL FUEL. Unless your submarine has leaks, it should be safe considering there's no oxygen for the hydrocarbons to combust. A feature not a bug considering its free fuel! And that means longer operating times for the missile subs and cheaper missiles Not free fuel, since there's nothing to burn it with unless you bring it with you. And, because it contains no oxygen, you can't use electrolysis to replenish your air supply like you could on an Earth sub.
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Post by thorneel on Mar 22, 2017 19:59:20 GMT
Unless your submarine has leaks, it should be safe considering there's no oxygen for the hydrocarbons to combust. A feature not a bug considering its free fuel! And that means longer operating times for the missile subs and cheaper missiles Not free fuel, since there's nothing to burn it with unless you bring it with you. And, because it contains no oxygen, you can't use electrolysis to replenish your air supply like you could on an Earth sub. It would be more akin to today's air-breathing engines: you don't need both oxidizer and combustible, only one of those. This becomes moot if you work with nuclear engines, though.
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Post by argonbalt on Mar 22, 2017 21:28:58 GMT
Venus seems like one of the most secure planets in the solar system. Subterranean bases would be practically immune from orbital attack, protected by the thick, opaque atmosphere. Any missile used to attack the surface would have to be specialized for the high pressures (9.2 Mpa, 92x Earth levels) and corrosive environment, increasing its cost massively and making barrages less practical. All told, Venus may be the only body in the solar system where surface invasions are more viable than orbital attack, and even then it would be extremely difficult. Well to throw another geological wrench in your gears, Venus also has a likely still active and vibrant volcanic sub layer. The Surface is after all 90% basalt, 65% of the surface is also comprised of lava flows. On top of that no less than 1000 volcanic mounts are documented. NOW hypothetically all the activity could have occurred long ago and recently ceased, but we cannot really say, some have speculated and observed potential contemporary activity around 2008-2010, but my point is it is perhaps underground is just as bad as above.
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Post by RiftandRend on Mar 22, 2017 21:31:20 GMT
Venus seems like one of the most secure planets in the solar system. Subterranean bases would be practically immune from orbital attack, protected by the thick, opaque atmosphere. Any missile used to attack the surface would have to be specialized for the high pressures (9.2 Mpa, 92x Earth levels) and corrosive environment, increasing its cost massively and making barrages less practical. All told, Venus may be the only body in the solar system where surface invasions are more viable than orbital attack, and even then it would be extremely difficult. Well to throw another geological wrench in your gears, Venus also has a likely still active and vibrant volcanic sub layer. The Surface is after all 90% basalt, 65% of the surface is also comprised of lava flows. On top of that no less than 1000 volcanic mounts are documented. NOW hypothetically all the activity could have occurred long ago and recently ceased, but we cannot really say, some have speculated and observed potential contemporary activity around 2008-2010, but my point is it is perhaps underground is just as bad as above. Surely the entire crust isn't covered in active volcanoes and magma tubes. There have to be some fairly stable locations for colonization.
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Post by argonbalt on Mar 22, 2017 22:21:19 GMT
Well to throw another geological wrench in your gears, Venus also has a likely still active and vibrant volcanic sub layer. The Surface is after all 90% basalt, 65% of the surface is also comprised of lava flows. On top of that no less than 1000 volcanic mounts are documented. NOW hypothetically all the activity could have occurred long ago and recently ceased, but we cannot really say, some have speculated and observed potential contemporary activity around 2008-2010, but my point is it is perhaps underground is just as bad as above. Surely the entire crust isn't covered in active volcanoes and magma tubes. There have to be some fairly stable locations for colonization. Now the magnetosphere is pretty weak and it's crust activity seems to be pretty dormant, but im just saying that the external environment is already pretty harsh and the subterranean crust may be somewhat treacherous. Granted the biggest counter argument is actually the fact that craters still appear on Venus, meaning that even the atmosphere as shield idea is somewhat limited
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Post by newageofpower on Mar 23, 2017 2:28:45 GMT
On Venus, colonization is likely to take place in cloud-based Blimp-Habitats, because air conditioning and pressure-proofing habitats on the surface of Venus is pretty expensive.
It would be an order of magnitude easier to live on Earth's ocean floor than to live on Venuses's surface. Imho.
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Post by Enderminion on Mar 23, 2017 3:08:32 GMT
I am surprise some groups didn't go to the seas instead of space after the cataclysm newageofpower, be a great setting for a submarine game
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 23, 2017 3:18:49 GMT
I am surprise some groups didn't go to the seas instead of space after the cataclysm newageofpower , be a great setting for a submarine game Read the document. They said the ENTIRE ocean is LOST. LOST.LOST.
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Post by newageofpower on Mar 23, 2017 3:26:31 GMT
Yeah, that seems ludicrous. How the hell do you *lose* an ocean?
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Post by The Astronomer on Mar 23, 2017 3:38:23 GMT
Yeah, that seems ludicrous. How the hell do you *lose* an ocean? You know, it's lost. CDE's just that, isn't it? The Cataclysm mentioned it...?
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Post by RiftandRend on Mar 23, 2017 5:02:47 GMT
On Venus, colonization is likely to take place in cloud-based Blimp-Habitats, because air conditioning and pressure-proofing habitats on the surface of Venus is pretty expensive. It would be an order of magnitude easier to live on Earth's ocean floor than to live on Venuses's surface. Imho. About the same in terms of pressure
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Post by thorneel on Mar 23, 2017 11:25:34 GMT
Yeah, that seems ludicrous. How the hell do you *lose* an ocean? You would be surprised how easy it is when you are not paying attention. I recommend putting a RFID tag on it, or even better a GPS tag in case someone takes it away by mistake. Seriously though, the idea is that runaway greenhouse effect causes oceans to start evaporating, putting more water vapour in the atmosphere, increasing the greenhouse effect further, until oceans boil away completely. It is suspected to be what happened to Venus. The reason there is no more water vapour on Venus is that in high altitude, UV from the Sun break water molecules, and hydrogen is light enough to escape, leaving only oxygen. Incidentally, it is also why an exoplanet with oxygen signature may not be a sign of alien life. However, neither would have had time to happen in CoaDE's timescale, so there should still be some oceans left. (I still recommend giving up the unrealistic accidental runaway greenhouse effect and replace it with a more credible accidental runaway snowball effect, as this did happen once in Earth past) Also subterranean cities may still exist as for many, it would be industrially easier than throwing them in space. Many would still have been thrown in space as all available solutions would be used. Those cities would become a minor player in the System due to being deep in a gravity well, under a scalding, thick and possibly mildly corrosive atmosphere, making surface-to-orbit traffic expensive. Some may even be progressively abandoned as people use said light traffic to escape them. Or they may have all (or most) failed since, because giant emergency bunkers may face unplanned long-term problems. Military-wise, destroying them or static defences would require the same tactic than for Venus: using massive projectiles sent from beyond their engagement range. It would be a significant investment compared to destroying other habitats, so there may be some advantage there, particularly as hidden, buried/underwater defences (as those evoked on Mars) would be hard to locate (or destroy with a massive, planet-wide bombardment with millions of massive projectiles).
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