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Post by gedzilla on Feb 9, 2017 18:25:59 GMT
I'm very unsure of whats the best anti kinetic or overall armor design. here are two armor designs I'm using, tell me what you think
1) 3.5cm Titanium 2cm gap 5cm Boron 8cm gap 7cm Silica Aerogel 10cm gap 1cm Daimond (my Whipple Shield)
2) 4.1cm Boron 14cm gap 1cm Daimond (inner Whipple shield) 15cm gap 5.4cm Silica Aerogel 11cm gap 8mm Titanium 20cm gap 2cm Boron
Am i using to much spacing ? Is Titanium worth the mass and density it has ? Everyone seems to think Amorphous Carbon is some wonder material, should i be using it ? Feel free to post your Armor Designs.
Any answers help. thanks :-)
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Post by apophys on Feb 9, 2017 18:49:20 GMT
I don't see kinetic armor being cost-effective. The weapons we have can pierce through meters of solid osmium. Dodging kinetics is the best way to avoid damage. A thin hard layer to ricochet stray bullets might make sense, but don't expect it to take a beating.
If you want to try kinetic armor anyway, you'll probably need to sandwich a few meters of aerogel in between hard layers. Of course, that makes you easier to hit...
Against lasers, the overall best currently is nitrile rubber.
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Post by gedzilla on Feb 9, 2017 19:34:50 GMT
im not designing them to tank hits, since its always easier project firepower than defend against it, but most of my ships have very heavily sloped armor. that combined with the best armor this forum can give, might make them able to take a few hits
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Post by Enderminion on Feb 10, 2017 0:08:38 GMT
I don't see kinetic armor being cost-effective. The weapons we have can pierce through meters of solid osmium. Dodging kinetics is the best way to avoid damage. A thin hard layer to ricochet stray bullets might make sense, but don't expect it to take a beating. If you want to try kinetic armor anyway, you'll probably need to sandwich a few meters of aerogel in between hard layers. Of course, that makes you easier to hit... Against lasers, the overall best currently is nitrile rubber. I thought Aramid fiber was better? for lasers then Nitrile Rubber. but for the OP, a lot of boron backed by para-aramid fiber works wonders for heavier and slower kinetics, back nearly all of your armour with para-aramid or something similar to catch fragments and spalling
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Post by caiaphas on Feb 10, 2017 0:19:44 GMT
I don't see kinetic armor being cost-effective. The weapons we have can pierce through meters of solid osmium. Dodging kinetics is the best way to avoid damage. A thin hard layer to ricochet stray bullets might make sense, but don't expect it to take a beating. If you want to try kinetic armor anyway, you'll probably need to sandwich a few meters of aerogel in between hard layers. Of course, that makes you easier to hit... Against lasers, the overall best currently is nitrile rubber. I thought Aramid fiber was better? for lasers then Nitrile Rubber. but for the OP, a lot of boron backed by para-aramid fiber works wonders for heavier and slower kinetics, back nearly all of your armour with para-aramid or something similar to catch fragments and spalling Someone ran the math a while back and found that, for equivalent mass and cost, nitrile rubber took longer to burn through than aramid fiber (since nitrile rubber is less dense and costs a lot less). Of course, since it's less dense your cross-section balloons, but at the ranges we're talking about that doesn't really affect the range at which rail- and coilguns can engage too much.
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Post by apophys on Feb 10, 2017 0:44:42 GMT
I thought Aramid fiber was better? for lasers then Nitrile Rubber. Aramid is somewhat better for mass, but nitrile is vastly better for cost (definitely worth the trade).
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Post by theholyinquisition on Feb 10, 2017 1:21:00 GMT
I don't see kinetic armor being cost-effective. The weapons we have can pierce through meters of solid osmium. Dodging kinetics is the best way to avoid damage. A thin hard layer to ricochet stray bullets might make sense, but don't expect it to take a beating. If you want to try kinetic armor anyway, you'll probably need to sandwich a few meters of aerogel in between hard layers. Of course, that makes you easier to hit... Against lasers, the overall best currently is nitrile rubber. Why so much aerogel?
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Post by newageofpower on Feb 10, 2017 3:55:06 GMT
It's almost strictly superior to empty space based Whipple Shields; some of the aerogels are pretty strong but have almost no density at all.
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Post by gedzilla on Feb 10, 2017 10:50:04 GMT
For some reason, i feel myself gravitating towards using Titanium, is it worth its mass ?
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Post by shiolle on Feb 10, 2017 11:55:34 GMT
I use the following armoring scheme right now: 1cm - Amorphous Carbon (anti-spalling) 1.5-3cm - Boron (main armor) 60-100cm - Graphite Aerogel or just empty space. 1.5mm - Liquid Crystal Polymer (inner part of whipple shield) 1.3-2.0mm - Maragin Steel (main whipple shield)
Sometimes I substitute exclude aerogel to add 5mm Aramid Fiber anti-laser layer right above boron that only covers the nose cone. In addition to that I use bulkheads, i.e. radiation shields to add some reinforcement to vulnerable modules: - 5-8cm boron bulkhead ahead and behind crew modules.
- 20 cm silica aerogel anti-laser bulkhead ahead of crew modules (and forward boron bulkhead).
- 3-4cm boron bulkhead between engines and aft propellant tanks.
Of course, bulkheads are just single armor zone (unfortunately) but they do help in my experience. This armor helps against 6-8km/s 1-5g EM accelerators, nuclear blasts, moderate amount of laser fire and light flak missiles. It won't help against hypervelocity guns (I try to stay away from them) and even 15g+ guns with 6-8km/s muzzle velocity. I have to rely on missile spam against powerful lasers and on interceptors against missiles. I think about using heavier armor, but I try to keep my ships in 900 tons to 2 kt range.
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Post by Easy on Feb 10, 2017 14:58:31 GMT
I've been experimenting with S-glass composite (cost effective fiber) as a spall liner below boron bulk.
My scientific rigor in controlling variables has been low so I'm never really sure.
S-Glass Composite (spall) (1cm) Boron (thick) (10cm) -empty space- (1m) Aramid Fiber (spall and laser/flash) (1cm) Boron (whipple) (1cm) Nitrile Rubber (laser/flash) (4cm)
Boron has great stats for its cost and mass and is one of the few metals you can lay of thick with gigapascals of yield strength. The primary disadvantage is it is brittle so a fiber layer below helps a lot.
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Post by apophys on Feb 10, 2017 15:39:09 GMT
The primary disadvantage is it is brittle so a fiber layer below helps a lot. How are you checking the brittleness of a material?
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Post by Enderminion on Feb 10, 2017 15:45:10 GMT
The primary disadvantage is it is brittle so a fiber layer below helps a lot. How are you checking the brittleness of a material? The All Powerful and Mightly Lord and Savior of Civilization, The one who Knows ALL that is Known. the internet
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Post by Easy on Feb 10, 2017 15:52:35 GMT
The primary disadvantage is it is brittle so a fiber layer below helps a lot. How are you checking the brittleness of a material? Everything is brittle at speeds greater than 3km/s. But look at the difference between the yield strength and ultimate tensile strength. If the numbers are very close to each other it is brittle, if the yield strength is a significantly smaller number it is ductile. There is more to it, but that's a good starting point. In practice you want some ductility/plasticity because after the impactor is absorbed by the armor you have a large force the armor needs to absorb, if the armor can deform but remain in place you'll do a lot better than having a conical chunk break off from the inside of your armor.
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Post by theholyinquisition on Feb 10, 2017 16:50:48 GMT
I've been experimenting with S-glass composite (cost effective fiber) as a spall liner below boron bulk. My scientific rigor in controlling variables has been low so I'm never really sure. S-Glass Composite (spall) (1cm) Boron (thick) (10cm) -empty space- (1m) Aramid Fiber (spall and laser/flash) (1cm) Boron (whipple) (1cm) Nitrile Rubber (laser/flash) (4cm) Boron has great stats for its cost and mass and is one of the few metals you can lay of thick with gigapascals of yield strength. The primary disadvantage is it is brittle so a fiber layer below helps a lot. No areogel? Also, this seems a bit soft. I thought diamond would be useful for deflection.
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