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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 3, 2017 4:22:55 GMT
Are the projectiles' masses over one ton? Anyways, I might try high speed collision providing that the AI isn't so damn annoyingly stupid that it orients broadside even with 'Homing' or no command on. 97kg, but they blow through meters of osmium plate, even when sloped. New patch is introducing a very unfortunate amount of wobble and I'm having a hard time hitting things at long range. 100 kg at ten times the speed is about 5-10 times the kinetic energy I got from my impactors as of now. Will try later. Note: Actually, the second impact did destroy the outermost 2 cm-thick layer of diamond.
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Post by fenrin49 on Jan 3, 2017 4:34:57 GMT
for kkvs use a meter of boron needle like slope and cross your fingers because if your point defense didnt work you are sooooo screwed. armor does help against wider flak patterns but focused missile fire will melt anything - redundancy is your friend.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Jan 3, 2017 5:18:35 GMT
generally, KKV does little damage since they tend to go from one side out of another.
So just make sure you don't put anything important close to your radiator and you SHOULD probably be fine.
Unless the KKV is made to shatter upon impact in which case well, say goodbye to your ship.
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 3, 2017 5:38:37 GMT
generally, KKV does little damage since they tend to go from one side out of another. So just make sure you don't put anything important close to your radiator and you SHOULD probably be fine. Unless the KKV is made to shatter upon impact in which case well, say goodbye to your ship. So you are saying that a good KKV is a huge flak? Nice.
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Post by dragonkid11 on Jan 3, 2017 5:43:46 GMT
generally, KKV does little damage since they tend to go from one side out of another. So just make sure you don't put anything important close to your radiator and you SHOULD probably be fine. Unless the KKV is made to shatter upon impact in which case well, say goodbye to your ship. So you are saying that a good KKV is a huge flak? Nice. Theoretically. A KKV that went out from one side to other while making only a tiny little hole is bad. A KKV that dump all its energy in the form of angry spalling and fragmentation is good. Still trying to figure out what to choose for that KKV head though.
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Post by fenrin49 on Jan 3, 2017 6:34:18 GMT
the bigest mostest fastest! it is a bit hard to make flak with enough spread to spread damage evenly yet have enough speed and mass to do damage defeat armor. im thinking of starting to use guns with low velocity on drone kkvs that way they can target modules or just land more of the payload on target. not sure if its worth the mass though. dang it i need proper missile targeting. literal no reason not to use laser guidance or some sort of remote control and steer missiles with the main ships targeting gear.
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 3, 2017 7:09:20 GMT
So you are saying that a good KKV is a huge flak? Nice. Theoretically. A KKV that went out from one side to other while making only a tiny little hole is bad. A KKV that dump all its energy in the form of angry spalling and fragmentation is good. Still trying to figure out what to choose for that KKV head though. So, making the projectile as fattest as you can. It will probably help much. For best defenses against OP weapons? Evade intercepts until those dies out by running of delta-v. Prepare your L(reaction mass)T.
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Post by n2maniac on Jan 3, 2017 7:34:37 GMT
Theory states: The outer layer of wipple shield should be thick enough to fracture the projectile and spread it out to allow a larger area (via gap) of armor underneath to absorb the explosion of plasma and hypervelocity fragments.
In practice ingame: more graphite aerogel (several meters thick), adjust top and lower armor to be effective for their weight/cost against expected incoming threats (including laser if relevant)
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 3, 2017 7:59:55 GMT
Graphite aerogel is awful against lasers, though. Well, I did most of my laser/armor testing prior to 1.08, so if this has changed please let me know. You also need vast volumes of it, greatly increasing your cross section compared to conventional whipple shields, nevermind unspaced armor. vs Kinetic Sand the amimai composition (Diamond-topped armor with a high strength (usually Carbon/Boron) backing and spall liners behind it) seems to be the best; and vs heavy kill vehicles (whether nuclear penetrator, frag/flak or pure kinetic rod) no practical amount of armor seems to make a difference.
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elukka
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by elukka on Jan 3, 2017 11:51:34 GMT
I forgot to mention, he's asking for the impossible. Well, I kinda figured, but I was curious if others had better solutions. Turns out they do. i.imgur.com/Ql038Et.jpgAmimai's armor at double thickness. Some surface melt, but no internal damage. However, this is with fragmented impactors optimized against lighter armor. If I remove the frag charge it'll go through. Still, a much, much better result than what I managed. On the note of fragmenting vs non-fragmenting kinetics, unless your target has insane armor you really want it to fragment. Just add a small explosive charge (don't need a shrapnel shell, it seems the missile itself fragmenting works fine), and the difference looks like this: Pure KKVs: i.imgur.com/qizqyp6.jpgFragmenting KKVs: i.imgur.com/XmHPhfR.jpg
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Post by n2maniac on Jan 3, 2017 15:40:18 GMT
Vs laser an anti-laser outer layer seems to help. Nitrile rubber, aramid, or silica aerogel work reasonably.
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Post by David367th on Jan 3, 2017 15:41:34 GMT
Vs laser an anti-laser outer layer seems to help. Nitrile rubber, aramid, or silica aerogel work reasonably. Silica doesn't work anymore, it ablates as fast as most materials now.
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Post by amimai on Jan 3, 2017 17:44:01 GMT
If you want something strong against sand and lasers at the same time:
Diamond AMcarbon (Gap) Polyethylene/nitrile rubber Graphogel Polyethylene/nitrile rubber
Will do well for significantly less weight then the heavier armour composites
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Post by kitten on Jan 3, 2017 21:06:15 GMT
The problem with armouring against KE is players only really design two types of KE threats.
One is KKV/NEFP which tend to be too big and too fast to reasonably armour against, on the plus side these are reasonably large and move at a reasonably slow speed (i.e. nearly negligible compared to C) so they can be defeated by point defences and evasive manoeuvres, maybe decoyed by flares. Basically passive armour is never going to be cost- and mass-effective against them compared to active defences.
The other is sand/needles which, due to the way rail/coilguns are designed currently (rate of fire not dependent on main weapon energy input), can simply be launched in far too great numbers to be realistically stopped by practical armour. You can definitely stop one needle, you can probably stop ten needles hitting the same armour tile, but right now needleguns just have too high a rate of fire and your armour will fail due to cumulative impacts. Althouh the KE sandstorm only moves at a few percentage points of C, while lasers hit at C, so the solution to needlegun boats seems to be outranging them with lasers.
Armour may be viable as a last line of defence against needlegun spray-and-pray at 1Mm provided it is both strong and compact, and the attacker is rapidly destroyed so you don't have too many impacts.
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Post by amimai on Jan 3, 2017 21:22:54 GMT
Actually I now use 10g+ coilguns or 70km+ railguns so wipple armour is a horrible idea, the rounds I shoot cut through soft wipples like paper... hard surface layers are useful since they can bounce off most kinetic rounds
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