elukka
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by elukka on Jan 2, 2017 12:21:09 GMT
I've recently been trying to come up with armor that is effective against KKVs. Specifically, I've been trying to come up with an armor design that a) is effective against ~50 kg impactors (optionally fragmenting) at 10-15 km/s, with kinetic energy in the low gigajoules and b) is lightweight enough to feasibly cover at least a small portion of a ship.
I've gotten the best results with an outer 3 mm steel shell, followed by two alternating layers of 20 cm aramid fiber and some centimeters of steel, at a spacing of 1 meter. The results aren't encouraging. The holes are smaller, but the armor is always penetrated and the impact wrecks anything in that part of the ship. I have experimented with the spacing, number and thickness of the armor layers but I haven't done anything very extensive with material composition.
My current conclusion is that it's not feasible to armor against this sort of attack. However, I'm curious if anyone can come up with a working armor design.
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Post by bigbombr on Jan 2, 2017 12:53:56 GMT
I've recently been trying to come up with armor that is effective against KKVs. Specifically, I've been trying to come up with an armor design that a) is effective against ~50 kg impactors (optionally fragmenting) at 10-15 km/s, with kinetic energy in the low gigajoules and b) is lightweight enough to feasibly cover at least a small portion of a ship. I've gotten the best results with an outer 3 mm steel shell, followed by two alternating layers of 20 cm aramid fiber and some centimeters of steel, at a spacing of 1 meter. The results aren't encouraging. The holes are smaller, but the armor is always penetrated and the impact wrecks anything in that part of the ship. I have experimented with the spacing, number and thickness of the armor layers but I haven't done anything very extensive with material composition. My current conclusion is that it's not feasible to armor against this sort of attack. However, I'm curious if anyone can come up with a working armor design. Try this tread: childrenofadeadearth.boards.net/thread/201/capital-ship-armor-threadand this one: childrenofadeadearth.boards.net/thread/568/armor-practical-allConclusion: against KE attacks, whipple shields out of a hard material (like diamond or boron), filled with graphite aerogel seems the best armour mass- and cost-wise. It still isn't anything near cost- or mass-effective when compared to bringing more firepower to the fight.
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 2, 2017 13:24:44 GMT
I've recently been trying to come up with armor that is effective against KKVs. Specifically, I've been trying to come up with an armor design that a) is effective against ~50 kg impactors (optionally fragmenting) at 10-15 km/s, with kinetic energy in the low gigajoules and b) is lightweight enough to feasibly cover at least a small portion of a ship. I've gotten the best results with an outer 3 mm steel shell, followed by two alternating layers of 20 cm aramid fiber and some centimeters of steel, at a spacing of 1 meter. The results aren't encouraging. The holes are smaller, but the armor is always penetrated and the impact wrecks anything in that part of the ship. I have experimented with the spacing, number and thickness of the armor layers but I haven't done anything very extensive with material composition. My current conclusion is that it's not feasible to armor against this sort of attack. However, I'm curious if anyone can come up with a working armor design. I used the modified version of amaimai's armor combined with slope surface, and those thing goes against 13.3 ton projectiles going at over 1 km/s without any damage in the innermost armor, and no apparent damage at the outermost layer.
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 2, 2017 20:30:48 GMT
1km/s is awful. Most KKVs are over 5 km/s; I've managed to squeeze out 20+km/s intercept velocity on extremely impractical designs EDIT: Whoops. That's a NEFP Kill Vehicle Launcher, not a pure KKV launcher.
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Post by David367th on Jan 2, 2017 21:36:42 GMT
If I recall Aramid Fiber has no anti-kinetic properties, you're thinking Para-Aramid fiber which happens to go under the brand name Kevlar.
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Post by Easy on Jan 3, 2017 1:36:50 GMT
I've recently been trying to come up with armor that is effective against KKVs. [...] ~50 kg impactors (optionally fragmenting) at 10-15 km/s, with kinetic energy in the low gigajoules and b) is lightweight enough to feasibly cover at least a small portion of a ship. [...] My current conclusion is that it's not feasible to armor against this sort of attack. However, I'm curious if anyone can come up with a working armor design. You don't say?
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 3, 2017 1:47:59 GMT
Yeah. Not worth trying to armor except vs lasers and maybe high velocity kinetic 'sand'. Even then, your anti-sand armor will be heavy, expensive, and add a few seconds of survival.
Anti-sand armor might last a little longer once kinetic weapons are fixed. Maybe.
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Post by David367th on Jan 3, 2017 2:08:57 GMT
I've recently been trying to come up with armor that is effective against KKVs. [...] ~50 kg impactors (optionally fragmenting) at 10-15 km/s, with kinetic energy in the low gigajoules and b) is lightweight enough to feasibly cover at least a small portion of a ship. [...] My current conclusion is that it's not feasible to armor against this sort of attack. However, I'm curious if anyone can come up with a working armor design. You don't say? I forgot to mention, he's asking for the impossible.
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Post by fenrin49 on Jan 3, 2017 2:48:06 GMT
thick 1 meter graphogel and or udhmp surfaced with a thick plate of your choice bulk armor combination it gets expensive but think of it as having a tough surface plate followed by a shock absorber to rob the projectile of energy in theory osmium followed by progressively soft compressible materials is ideal. ill see if i can put together something reasonable that will stop somthing like a 50kg tungsten slug at 15km/s
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Post by David367th on Jan 3, 2017 3:04:57 GMT
I though boron was our go to pressure wall and Osmium fragments too much with high energy impacts.
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Post by fenrin49 on Jan 3, 2017 3:14:54 GMT
testing complete 1cm osmium folowed by 10 meters of graphogel then 2cm uhdmp bounces 50 kg 160mm iron slugs moving at 10km/s with minimal slope still lots of room for optimization too.
i use osmium in this case because it has high ultimate tensile - i want it to flex the low yield strength is good in this case
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Post by The Astronomer on Jan 3, 2017 3:15:50 GMT
1km/s is awful. Most KKVs are over 5 km/s; I've managed to squeeze out 20+km/s intercept velocity on extremely impractical designs EDIT: Whoops. That's a NEFP Kill Vehicle Launcher, not a pure KKV launcher. Are the projectiles' masses over one ton? Anyways, I might try high speed collision providing that the AI isn't so damn annoyingly stupid that it orients broadside even with 'Homing' or no command on.
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Post by David367th on Jan 3, 2017 3:39:40 GMT
testing complete 1cm osmium folowed by 10 meters of graphogel then 2cm uhdmp bounces 50 kg 160mm iron slugs moving at 10km/s with minimal slope still lots of room for optimization too. i use osmium in this case because it has high ultimate tensile - i want it to flex the low yield strength is good in this case Flexing in a crystalline structure causes fractures and spall. Usually flying in the direction you don't want them to.
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Post by fenrin49 on Jan 3, 2017 4:00:18 GMT
cutting down the osmium down to 500um still bouncing those iron slugs no damage to the armor- it doesn't seem to mind flexing. probably not realistic. with further testing without the skin things started going through but many still bounced- took off the uhdmp backing too conclusion is graphogel is the bane of kinetics osmium might not be the best skin material. stopping kkvs is proving a bit tricky
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Post by newageofpower on Jan 3, 2017 4:03:02 GMT
Are the projectiles' masses over one ton? Anyways, I might try high speed collision providing that the AI isn't so damn annoyingly stupid that it orients broadside even with 'Homing' or no command on. 97kg, but they blow through meters of osmium plate, even when sloped. New patch is introducing a very unfortunate amount of wobble and I'm having a hard time hitting things at long range.
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