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Post by jasonvance on Dec 14, 2016 18:33:30 GMT
Colony ship for sale 1.29% of C, not bad. How did you squeeze all your radiators... no... wait... I see what you did there. Anyways, how many settlers and how many kilotons of cargo can your Colony Ship move? as much mass in payload as you want just add more fuel to make up the difference You can go down to 75% fuel to total mass ratio and still be around 1% the speed of light. So just add stuff to it as is and it will do fine, if your payload is significantly larger just add more fuel, will add extra years to the burn time but if you are sending frozen embryo's with an AI controlled ship, as Sharkee went into detail about in the video below the travel time won't really matter. I'm currently working on the 10% the speed of light colony ship required for getting to neighboring galaxies. I could do it with a multi-stage version of the older one but that seems pretty wasteful, getting the amount of power required to not crash in the game has been the real problem.
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Post by The Astronomer on Dec 15, 2016 12:16:15 GMT
1.29% of C, not bad. How did you squeeze all your radiators... no... wait... I see what you did there. Anyways, how many settlers and how many kilotons of cargo can your Colony Ship move? as much mass in payload as you want just add more fuel to make up the difference You can go down to 75% fuel to total mass ratio and still be around 1% the speed of light. So just add stuff to it as is and it will do fine, if your payload is significantly larger just add more fuel, will add extra years to the burn time but if you are sending frozen embryo's with an AI controlled ship, as Sharkee went into detail about in the video below the travel time won't really matter. I'm currently working on the 10% the speed of light colony ship required for getting to neighboring galaxies. I could do it with a multi-stage version of the older one but that seems pretty wasteful, getting the amount of power required to not crash in the game has been the real problem. 0.1c to neighboring galaxies? Wow, that's going to be a pretty long time.
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Post by jasonvance on Dec 15, 2016 17:56:49 GMT
as much mass in payload as you want just add more fuel to make up the difference You can go down to 75% fuel to total mass ratio and still be around 1% the speed of light. So just add stuff to it as is and it will do fine, if your payload is significantly larger just add more fuel, will add extra years to the burn time but if you are sending frozen embryo's with an AI controlled ship, as Sharkee went into detail about in the video below the travel time won't really matter. I'm currently working on the 10% the speed of light colony ship required for getting to neighboring galaxies. I could do it with a multi-stage version of the older one but that seems pretty wasteful, getting the amount of power required to not crash in the game has been the real problem. 0.1c to neighboring galaxies? Wow, that's going to be a pretty long time. yeah 25,000,000 years (thus the dependence on AI to control the ship and colonization and frozen embryo payload). Odds are we would develop a faster craft within 1,000,000 years, pass it, and get there before the first 10% LS craft finished it's journey but this was assuming worst case that beyond 10% LS is just not possible.
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Post by The Astronomer on Dec 15, 2016 23:39:33 GMT
0.1c to neighboring galaxies? Wow, that's going to be a pretty long time. yeah 25,000,000 years (thus the dependence on AI to control the ship and colonization and frozen embryo payload). Odds are we would develop a faster craft within 1,000,000 years, pass it, and get there before the first 10% LS craft finished it's journey but this was assuming worst case that beyond 10% LS is just not possible. I think if we will ever colonize neighboring galaxies, we will need a wormhole network first. .1c is for interstellar travel.
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Post by Crazy Tom on Dec 16, 2016 1:10:50 GMT
The novel Lockstep proposes what I think is the most elegant solution for having FTL without having FTL. You have a civilization that enters hybernation for long periods of time. They spend one month going about their lives, then they spend 30 years (for example) in cryostasis. Ships going 0.1c can now cross 3 LY in a month. Up the ratio of sleep:away and you can arbitrarily 'contract' space to allow for what is effectively FTL.
Whole empires can share the same space yet never interact on account of having different Lockstep cycles, and they can do so without competing too much with one another because they can build up the resources needed for people to live in 1 month over a period of 30 years.
Just imagine space filled with these hibernacula - massive vaults meant to safe-keep their population during their decades long slumber. The slowest of all Lockstep civilizations sleeping for millennia for every month they spend awake, until even intergalactic travel is possible and the evolution of stars and planets must be taken into account when planning infrastructure. Their very existence becoming myth and legend over the course of a single sleep/wake cycle.
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Post by n2maniac on Dec 16, 2016 8:11:25 GMT
I predict lockstep will never be that good, not because the technology to do so will never exist, but because the motivation for it will dwindle as those hoping for a decent system just hibernate until the rest of them have completed it. Until everyone just waits for it rather than making it. (But seriously, travelling to the future would be hard to not do).
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Post by shurugal on Dec 16, 2016 12:41:33 GMT
I would think that the biggest problem with Lockstep is that people are inherently petty and vicious creatures: If you had two civilizations on alternating sleep cycles, you would very soon have only one.
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erin
Junior Member
Smash Mouth Plays From The Depths Of Hell As You Traverse A Deep, Rat-Infested Cave
Posts: 57
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Post by erin on Dec 16, 2016 18:43:52 GMT
It always amuses me when Thomas Hobbes' dead ass gets invoked as the reason why the fancy million year spaceship ideas won't work as opposed to stuff like "You're expecting a human-engineered system to last over a thousand years on automated operation while babysitting a bunch of human popsicles" but I guess that's one of those easily handwaved engineering problems I hear so much about
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Post by shurugal on Dec 16, 2016 18:46:50 GMT
It always amuses me when Thomas Hobbes' dead ass gets invoked as the reason why the fancy million year spaceship ideas won't work as opposed to stuff like "You're expecting a human-engineered system to last over a thousand years on automated operation while babysitting a bunch of human popsicles" but I guess that's one of those easily handwaved engineering problems I hear so much about who is Thomas Hobbes and how is he relevant to cryosleep ships?
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Post by Crazy Tom on Dec 16, 2016 19:04:21 GMT
It always amuses me when Thomas Hobbes' dead ass gets invoked as the reason why the fancy million year spaceship ideas won't work as opposed to stuff like "You're expecting a human-engineered system to last over a thousand years on automated operation while babysitting a bunch of human popsicles" but I guess that's one of those easily handwaved engineering problems I hear so much about who is Thomas Hobbes and how is he relevant to cryosleep ships? Does the phrase "nasty, brutish, and short" ring any bells?
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Post by shurugal on Dec 16, 2016 20:15:19 GMT
no.
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Post by thorneel on Dec 16, 2016 20:17:20 GMT
who is Thomas Hobbes and how is he relevant to cryosleep ships? Does the phrase "nasty, brutish, and short" ring any bells? Or the "Man is a Wolf for Man" one? (and no, the obvious "only send women" option won't work as advertised - it never does) erin has a point there: making complex machinery work for thousand years in interstellar space with all its cosmic rays, changing radiation environment (as distance from both systems varies), micrometeroids and whatever is in front of the ship that will impact it at relativistic speeds is, let's say, not quite trivial. And complex machinery includes handling radioactives for thousands of years: refurbishing reactors, recycling old neutron-activated parts and making new ones, reprocessing fuel that is naturally decaying so it is to specs again upon use, taking care of on-board ecosystem and life-support... Frankly, while the Three Generation Rule or its variants may be a problem, it's probably far from the hardest one. And at least, it is one we may have a chance to solve with today's or tomorrow's advances.
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Post by shurugal on Dec 16, 2016 20:40:35 GMT
Maintaining equipment over generational periods in space is not likely to be anywhere near the problem that we would expect based on today's obstacles. Hell, we've already invented self-repairing transistors and microcircuits, there's no a reason a space-faring society would lack the technical capability to develop a self-monitoring and self-repairing system which will not only keep itself in good condition, but will automatically wake up key engineering staff should anything fall outside of acceptable tolerances. Even if such a system proves impossible to engineer to be 100% autonomous, there is no reason that engineering staff cannot have staggered "awake" periods so that there is always a skeleton crew around to keep things running.
No, maintaining equipment, while no minor task, will by no means be insurmountable (it, in fact, is not insurmountable today, it just requires lots of man-hours). The biggest problems will start when the guys in Freezer Block 14638B decide that those asshats in 14773C are not worth the resources they consume. Humanity has never, ever, wanted for people who are willing to use violence as a first resort for settling differences (or for the sort willing to invent differences so they can indulge in some violence).
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 17, 2016 2:18:53 GMT
Maintaining equipment over generational periods in space is not likely to be anywhere near the problem that we would expect based on today's obstacles. Hell, we've already invented self-repairing transistors and microcircuits, there's no a reason a space-faring society would lack the technical capability to develop a self-monitoring and self-repairing system which will not only keep itself in good condition, but will automatically wake up key engineering staff should anything fall outside of acceptable tolerances. Even if such a system proves impossible to engineer to be 100% autonomous, there is no reason that engineering staff cannot have staggered "awake" periods so that there is always a skeleton crew around to keep things running. No, maintaining equipment, while no minor task, will by no means be insurmountable (it, in fact, is not insurmountable today, it just requires lots of man-hours). The biggest problems will start when the guys in Freezer Block 14638B decide that those asshats in 14773C are not worth the resources they consume. Humanity has never, ever, wanted for people who are willing to use violence as a first resort for settling differences (or for the sort willing to invent differences so they can indulge in some violence). NewAgeOfPower: Violence solves everything. shurugal: No it doesn't. *shurugal has been shot in the head*NewAgeOfPower: Problem solved.
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Post by shurugal on Dec 17, 2016 18:49:45 GMT
Maintaining equipment over generational periods in space is not likely to be anywhere near the problem that we would expect based on today's obstacles. Hell, we've already invented self-repairing transistors and microcircuits, there's no a reason a space-faring society would lack the technical capability to develop a self-monitoring and self-repairing system which will not only keep itself in good condition, but will automatically wake up key engineering staff should anything fall outside of acceptable tolerances. Even if such a system proves impossible to engineer to be 100% autonomous, there is no reason that engineering staff cannot have staggered "awake" periods so that there is always a skeleton crew around to keep things running. No, maintaining equipment, while no minor task, will by no means be insurmountable (it, in fact, is not insurmountable today, it just requires lots of man-hours). The biggest problems will start when the guys in Freezer Block 14638B decide that those asshats in 14773C are not worth the resources they consume. Humanity has never, ever, wanted for people who are willing to use violence as a first resort for settling differences (or for the sort willing to invent differences so they can indulge in some violence). NewAgeOfPower: Violence solves everything. shurugal: No it doesn't. *shurugal has been shot in the head*NewAgeOfPower: Problem solved. EXACTLY. Violence often creates more problems than it solves, but it rarely fails to make the problem in your face right now go away, provided you are better at violence than the source of your immediate problem.
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