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Post by strikedragon on Dec 2, 2016 18:35:27 GMT
Your stellar 18 year military career consists of 2.5 years of training, 13 years of interplanetary transfer, 2.5 years of peacekeeping operations, and 15 minutes of sheer terror/combat. You can't quit at any time. Except for your training period, you are working literally every day of your military career. Then you get back and realize you 18 years of wages in the bank that have been earning interest and can live the rest of your life in comfort.
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Post by bigbombr on Dec 2, 2016 22:19:17 GMT
I really don't care much for the ww2 topic, I'm not sure how we even got onto it... but discussing history 70 years gone is interesting, different people with different info on the subject makes it fun. Who is right or wrong wholy depends on where and when you learned your history from. Mmm... genetically engineered space squid do seem like they would be awsome starship crew! (Hey it worked for the Daleks!) But really that is one of the many reasons robots make ideal spaceship crew, much more convenient then meat bags! You don't need the bodies of the crew. You just need their brain. Brains-in-a-jar are a happy medium between crewed and automated vessels. Weight and life support are decreased by almost an order of magnitude (when compared with manned vessels), but you still have the mental flexibility of crewed vessels. The brain doesn't appear to suffer from zero-g.
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Post by cutterjohn on Dec 2, 2016 23:56:22 GMT
I really don't care much for the ww2 topic, I'm not sure how we even got onto it... but discussing history 70 years gone is interesting, different people with different info on the subject makes it fun. Who is right or wrong wholy depends on where and when you learned your history from. Mmm... genetically engineered space squid do seem like they would be awsome starship crew! (Hey it worked for the Daleks!) But really that is one of the many reasons robots make ideal spaceship crew, much more convenient then meat bags! You don't need the bodies of the crew. You just need their brain. Brains-in-a-jar are a happy medium between crewed and automated vessels. Weight and life support are decreased by almost an order of magnitude (when compared with manned vessels), but you still have the mental flexibility of crewed vessels. The brain doesn't appear to suffer from zero-g. Aside from the fact that that's getting into serious magic sci fi realms of technology, good luck finding crews who can be convinced to go along with it. I'd see hibernation technology as far, far more likely.
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Post by amimai on Dec 3, 2016 0:51:02 GMT
Brain in a jar is, while not currently viable, would be fairly practical once medical tech catches up with the likes of physics and chemistry... It's basically the next step up from nerve linked cybernetics. I would say at some point having parts of your brain hooked to a mind machine link for external processing capacity would be a bog standard and perfectly mundane thing to have from birth, sort of like how 4 year olds in 1st world nowadays have better computer literacy then their grandparents.
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Post by cuddlefish on Dec 3, 2016 1:17:00 GMT
You do realise Stalin was actively against war with anyone? His policy was isolationist industrial modernisation for Russia, most of that "expand the USSR" sentiment was post war effects rolling on the success of WW2. And really all those "governments in exile" and "resistance movements" mostly amounted to nothing but massive amounts of infighting... there is a reason the British explicitly did not involve any French leaders in organising the French resistance, and the various French resistance groups themselves probably inflicted just about as much damage to each other as they did to any occupying forces due to infighting and rampant criminal activity they engaged in. cource it's more complicated then that, it would depend on how fast Germany could get peace with England, and a bunch of other factors that matter like if he could take the Suez Canal asap, exactly how long it would take to fully consolidate holdings, political climate, and when the ussr would start making noise (that would still give hitler until 1944-48 to get his shit in order) also instead if Hiroshima/Nagasaki we would probably have a few European cities getting nuked eventually, not by US but Germany or Russia... so there is a good chance we would have a nice bit more neuclear wasteland out there then we did in original. You're aware that in the Molotov - von Ribbentropp pact, Stalin laid out a plan for territorial expansion which he then stuck to, right? Eating three countries (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) and parts of three more (Poland, Romania, Finland [that one needed a shooting war]) over the course of a year or so?
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Post by amimai on Dec 3, 2016 3:13:55 GMT
Ahh the winter and continuation wars... that went badly for the USSR.
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Post by cuddlefish on Dec 3, 2016 4:59:27 GMT
No arguments there.
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Post by bigbombr on Dec 3, 2016 10:19:34 GMT
You don't need the bodies of the crew. You just need their brain. Brains-in-a-jar are a happy medium between crewed and automated vessels. Weight and life support are decreased by almost an order of magnitude (when compared with manned vessels), but you still have the mental flexibility of crewed vessels. The brain doesn't appear to suffer from zero-g. Aside from the fact that that's getting into serious magic sci fi realms of technology, good luck finding crews who can be convinced to go along with it. I'd see hibernation technology as far, far more likely. Brain-computer interfaces are currently in their infancy (http://biomedphys.sgu.ru/Files/LIB/Springer/Neural%20Engineering/03.pdf), but they're rapidly advancing because their funding gets increased by the likes of DARPA (https://defensesystems.com/articles/2016/02/02/darpa-nesd-brain-computer-interface.aspx). Their is no reason to suspect that by the time CoadE takes place this technology hasn't matured. So it's hardly magic sci-fi, as it's just as credible as fusion drives, if not more so. Not needing to support an entire body, but just a brain decreases the nutritional and oxygen needs considerably. As the suspension fluid of the brain is directly oxygenated, there is no need for pressurized crew quarters, reducing structural requirements (decreased mass and cost) and reducing the dangers of shockwaves and fires. Artificial lungs and kidneys already exist, and developing artificial replacements for the other organs is a matter of time (the liver and pancreas would probably be the hardest to replace, but if you're not supporting a body that eats solids but a brain that gets directly fed, many of their regulatory and purification functions become not needed). You don't need many volunteers as 1) Combat involves only a few ships due to their costs and 2) the subjects need not be voluntary (a convict with an AI or remote executioner ready to cut off the life support would work, as would a purpose-grown brain, heavily modified with genetics and cybernetics and indoctrinated from before awareness.
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Post by Easy on Dec 3, 2016 13:35:22 GMT
Why would you let a convict brain run a multi megacred capship? Why do you expect AI to determine when to pull the plug and disable your equipment?
Volunteer or MK Ultra reset brains.
In regards to the 18years of interplanetary transfers, that time can be used for training.
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Post by apophys on Dec 5, 2016 12:01:07 GMT
2) the subjects need not be voluntary (a convict with an AI or remote executioner ready to cut off the life support would work, as would a purpose-grown brain, heavily modified with genetics and cybernetics and indoctrinated from before awareness. Setting aside the obvious human rights violations in both cases, neither of those make much sense, because you want robust and intelligent control of your ship. Astronauts require quite a lot of education, and high performance does not occur with a gun to the head. Any remote execution could be hacked by the enemy to immediately disable your ship. On the other hand, I don't think there would be a lack of volunteers. People with an unhealthy level of adventure-seeking or hunting glory would probably appreciate the option.
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Post by amimai on Dec 5, 2016 15:37:28 GMT
I would say that even the most adventurous would be put off by the thoughts of months if not years of travel time involved in cat and mouse stealth wars in the vast expanse of space. Unfortunately our mastery af hyperdimentional physics is not anywhere near the point of putting bends through 5d space needed for Star Trek style "a space adventure a week " enjoyment. On the other hand compact space ships for trade and travel would be a far more reliable way to get your interplanetary walkabout fix.
See you next time space cowboy!
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Post by argonbalt on Dec 7, 2016 13:25:53 GMT
I second this "Brain in a Jar" for the one obvious bonus, SIMULATIONS! Now every space crew member while in reality a spinal cord and brain plugged into a wall socket, inside the main computer could create a virtual paradise. Endless training scenarios, prep programs and safety sims, in addition to virtual relaxation simulations, Zegema beach? The Outer Rings? Sleep over at the play boy mansion, fight Muhamed Ali. This would be what you would be buying with volunteering. Access to the highest level of computer sim. The tricky part would be making sure crew are not lost in these simulations, or that someone takes over while they are under. Maintenance on the ship could be done with Waldoes and Various mecha.
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Post by lol on Dec 7, 2016 16:44:46 GMT
I second this "Brain in a Jar" for the one obvious bonus, SIMULATIONS! Now every space crew member while in reality a spinal cord and brain plugged into a wall socket, inside the main computer could create a virtual paradise. Endless training scenarios, prep programs and safety sims, in addition to virtual relaxation simulations, Zegema beach? The Outer Rings? Sleep over at the play boy mansion, fight Muhamed Ali. This would be what you would be buying with volunteering. Access to the highest level of computer sim. The tricky part would be making sure crew are not lost in these simulations, or that someone takes over while they are under. Maintenance on the ship could be done with Waldoes and Various mecha. Brain removed from the scull is incredibly fragile, it is optimised precisely for that. You will need the whole head(not just a container in formm of - precise layout with all blood wessels and thin compressible layers) for it to be capable of surviving acceleration. A perfect and living artificial scull is basically a clone of their head, so why need one? Crew losing humanity is also a huge loyalty issue. Devoid from human perception they will slowly lose their self-identity(which is always based on experience, including, say, tactile). If you can simulate environment so good, they won't notice, you may as well have strong AI. Who will eventually rule you, or plainly discard because it doesn't need meatbags. Escapism fucks up your everything, including loyalty, even if you fill their illusions with subtle propaganda. They would eventually become too foreign to your people in thinking to act like ones. Or even plainly fight for whoever can give them best illusions and no, you can't have a remote killswitch - month of ECM brutforcing on approach will find a key. And the whole point of crews that the are not limited in movement around the ship, just take your EVA suit and you are good to go. Having instead unmaintainable and incredibly complex mainteinace manipulator hanging in the void outside of crew compartment is beyound retarded. Humans can quite efficiently maintain themselves from very small damages, such as single nerve cell being killed by a very high-energy particle. Synthetic high-sensitivety surfaces(instead of skin) on manipulator won't live for long. You'll have to put it in EVA-like pressure and temperature compartment and regularly micromaintain it anyway. Which is even further beyound retarded - normal degrees of retardation are an infinite set of integers, but this shit just got real. No, this won't work. Get your shit together and prepare to share the company of 20-30 similarly brainfucked individuals on your several years long jorney to a very probable short fiery death. WH40k you say? Oh boy, reality would be much, much more hardcore...
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Post by jonen on Dec 7, 2016 16:44:56 GMT
I second this "Brain in a Jar" for the one obvious bonus, SIMULATIONS! Now every space crew member while in reality a spinal cord and brain plugged into a wall socket, inside the main computer could create a virtual paradise. Endless training scenarios, prep programs and safety sims, in addition to virtual relaxation simulations, Zegema beach? The Outer Rings? Sleep over at the play boy mansion, fight Muhamed Ali. This would be what you would be buying with volunteering. Access to the highest level of computer sim. The tricky part would be making sure crew are not lost in these simulations, or that someone takes over while they are under. Maintenance on the ship could be done with Waldoes and Various mecha. Processing cycles are expensive. Just edit the short term memory so they always think they just came on shift after two weeks shoreleave.
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Post by amimai on Dec 7, 2016 18:36:35 GMT
Brains are expensive, just run a simulated neural network or engram copy on a computer system. It also saves on training and life support.
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