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Post by nerd1000 on Nov 3, 2016 11:12:54 GMT
I don't think you realize how mind-bogglingly big the strategic map is. To paraphrase the Hitchhiker's Guide, you may think 4,000km is a long way, but it's just peanuts compared to space. To give an idea though, that'll only get you 1/10 of the way around Earth's equator. It's also just under 2/3 of the Earth's radius, so if you're in orbit around Earth you can take a look at it and get an idea of how short your range on the strategic map would be. A laser big enough to do noticeable damage on the strategic map would be so big and so power-hungry, it would have to be mounted on a large battle-station or an asteroid/planet. As for longer engagement ranges, I think those might have to wait until missiles get better code for controlled-homing (which is technically supposed to be how you get through long-range engagements, but right now it doesn't work). It wouldn't hit the whole map, just a small bubble around itself, since a strategic map attack should still account for the loss for power with distance, also the laser might have be interrupted if the attacking ship is doing a burn due to vibrations throwing off the aim at long ranges. 10m radius laser is not all that big compared to some hydrogen deuterium ships in the game, I think mine is 45m across, so the laser could easily fit on the front of it. But here's the thing, in game terms, it is really boring to sit through a 4000km real time intercept, so some way of auto-resolving long range laser damage on the strategic map could be a reasonable approach to alleviate the boredom while keeping large lasers in play, if their long range hitting power is as the game's current mechanics suggest. Time acceleration in tactical view might be a solution to this.
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Post by Easy on Nov 3, 2016 14:11:05 GMT
Everyone here is overestimating laser lethality.
The high temperature radiators will only lose some efficiency, aerogel armor doesn't care about lasers and you could still make a moly coated silicon carbide heat dissipation armor layer.
Remember that radiators increase efficiency as they get hotter, so if the ship can take the heat, you're getting ridiculous power requirements for your strategic weapon.
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Post by apophys on Nov 3, 2016 14:47:42 GMT
Power requirements are not an issue due to wonderfully efficient reactors. When you can build a fleet for 100 Mc that collectively pumps 54 GW of power into superlasers ( link), you cannot simply dismiss its lethality. You'll need quite thick silica aerogel on everything to close the range, and radiators can be sniped regardless. Missiles are less of a concern now that timed flak has been created. ( link)
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Post by Easy on Nov 3, 2016 16:00:42 GMT
Power requirements are not an issue due to wonderfully efficient reactors. When you can build a fleet for 100 Mc that collectively pumps 54 GW of power into superlasers ( link), you cannot simply dismiss its lethality. You'll need quite thick silica aerogel on everything to close the range, and radiators can be sniped regardless. Missiles are less of a concern now that timed flak has been created. ( link) Output power for your superlasers is 44MW per GW. You only have 2.4GW of actual laser leaving your ship. Beam quality M 2 is 3.0. Energy density is 7070MW/m 2 at 100km, 1780MW/m 2 at 200km and continues to drop off. Wavelength 532nm This superlaser has limited range. 44MW / 7070MW/m 2 = 0.006m 2 at 100km 44MW / 1780MW/m 2 = 0.025m 2 at 200km childrenofadeadearth.wordpress.com/2016/07/02/the-photon-lance/You might be able to scratch at thousands of kilometers, but you're paying a price. And for what? to increase engagement range only tenfold? You could fire ballistics just as far, only dispersion means you're doing the same amount of nothing.
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Post by apophys on Nov 4, 2016 1:46:19 GMT
I'm not sure how you consider that evidence for limited range (other than its obvious non-infinite value). It just shows that it has sufficient focus to snipe small things at long distances. Even at 2500 km, the focal area will be smaller than a square meter, and that's good enough to still burn through things.
2.4 GW of lasing power can overwhelm enemy radiators (or start warming hull material for easier subsequent drilling), even if the focal area is large, so it remains relevant at much longer ranges (since radiators are big).
The only price I see that I am paying is the inability to use flares to dodge missiles. This will be less of a concern with implementation of the defensive flak I linked. Otherwise, the fleet is rather cheap and light.
Please, test its effectiveness by giving the fleet to the AI (possibly removing the main MPD to keep the AI from doing dumb things in combat). Theorycrafting can only go so far.
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Post by goduranus on Nov 4, 2016 2:26:08 GMT
It actually only takes 100MW/m^2 to do decent damage, that 44MW output laser in your example can effectively hit at 800km.
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Post by lawson on Nov 4, 2016 8:33:01 GMT
Everyone here is overestimating laser lethality. The high temperature radiators will only lose some efficiency, aerogel armor doesn't care about lasers and you could still make a moly coated silicon carbide heat dissipation armor layer. Remember that radiators increase efficiency as they get hotter, so if the ship can take the heat, you're getting ridiculous power requirements for your strategic weapon. The DOOM Balloon Mk1 shown here uses a rail gun from the "Speed Record!" thread to initiate engagements at up to 1000Km depending on ship size. (so missiles start at 250Km and the stock "Gunship" starts at 1000Km) The 20 lasers each put out 44.8MW of green. With a 16 meter aperture radius, they are effective at sniping turrets, killing missiles or drones and burning through stock ship armor all the way out to 1000Km.
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Post by redmars on Nov 4, 2016 20:10:18 GMT
That's horrifying. How is it against missile swarms?
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Post by jonen on Nov 4, 2016 21:24:43 GMT
That's horrifying. How is it against missile swarms? 9 of those lasers on a platform without the range extension railgun can vape as many of any stock missiles as the AI is willing to launch well before effective range. That... Thing has 20. (The Range extension railgun will, however, not significantly affect engagement range.)
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Post by bigbombr on Nov 4, 2016 21:28:19 GMT
That's horrifying. How is it against missile swarms? 9 of those lasers on a platform without the range extension railgun can vape as many of any stock missiles as the AI is willing to launch well before effective range. That... Thing has 20. (The Range extension railgun will, however, not significantly affect engagement range.) Max ranges for lasers really should be increased. We shouldn't have to work around arbitrary (non-physics based) rules so we can use our weapons to their full potential.
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