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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Oct 16, 2018 0:32:51 GMT
The mainstay of many fleets - Gunship - despite it's good overall combat record and nearly iconic status, is starting to show its age, with some design deficiencies clearly showing.
As there is still a need for ships capable of performing Gunship's role you are to deliver a ship fulfilling following criteria: - Due to logistic and personnel (training) considerations as well as some alarming safety reports involving newly prototyped modules the ship is to use standard, extensively tested [CORE] components EXCLUSIVELY. Variants using new, high-end components will be open for consideration only AFTER the initial evaluation using 100% stock ones.
- It needs to fit into 12.00kt mass budget (slightly relaxed Gunship's mass budget).
- Given that original Gunship's price turned out to be a serious limiting factor in its use it needs to fit into 220Mc financial budget per unit built.
- It needs to house at least 100 flak missiles permitting the same capability for remote, disabling strikes as possessed by its predecessor.
- It can use any type of propulsion and propellant as long as it meets or exceeds Gunship's mission specifications of 4.24km/s delta-v and sustained 143 mG acceleration at full wet mass.
- It may mount any combination of direct fire armaments.
The evaluation is to be based on combat performance: - The ship must be capable - unsupported - of successfully repelling attack by forces matching tactics and composition of Admiral Celestina Voitenko's fleet over Vesta, with expectation of full crew survival.
- The ship must also be capable of winning against numerically superior force composed of Gunships in direct combat, preferably around a mass on the order of moderate to large moon - the size of force defeated and not budget savings is going to be the basis of combat evaluation - build up to the budgets.
- The ship must retain combat readiness after nearby nuclear detonations - avoid easily vaporized radiators on critical systems.
- Any additional capabilities, like housing nuclear missiles or additional flaks are welcome, but non-essential.
This is meant to be a more straightforward follow-up to the Hiveship challenge. Creativity still encouraged as you are given a common ground with your opponent and can't simply out-tech them with superior modules.
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Oct 16, 2018 3:19:39 GMT
Since all the stock guns are hot garbage, I used a slightly different approach. I disregarded any guns completely and went full missilespam: close combat edition. It packs 360 Flak Missiles and 450 Striker Nukes, both of which are fast enough to get on an intercept course within ten seconds of launching. This means I can fire massive missile salvos while doing a decently fast flyby of the gunships in combat. 1 km/s intercept speed seems to be a good balance of number of salvos you have time to fire and the amount of time you need to wait for missiles to fly along. It has enough armor to shrug off stupid amounts of stock gun bullets, and can survive flying through a gunship formation while having just launched a hundred Strikers with only some minor radiator damage. It still mounts some direct fire armaments, so all requirements are fulfilled. It can probably disable an arbitrary amount of gunships on the first pass, although the armor starts to give in around 8 gunships in with a slower intercept. I could maybe push it up to 10 but I don't feel like doing any micromanaging right now. I also used only half the mass budget and less than half of the credit budget, but I couldn't think of anything worthwhile to put in there. The missile spam makes my usual hundreds of 60mm guns approach a bit unfeasible as well, so I just went with two placeholder lasers. You can inflict some damage with them by blowing up all flak launchers on the enemy gunships at least. I ended up lowering gunship count to 6 due to lag and missile guidance reliability issues. Design: Gun ship.txt (1.64 KB) Combat screenies: Start of combat, launching first wave. Consists of 30 flaks mainly used to absorb lasing damage, and 100 Strikers behind them. The Strikers' job is to cause enough damage that most gunships won't be able to fire or move. The second wave consists of around 60 Flaks and 60 Strikers. The flaks will be effective once the first wave hits, resulting in the gunships being mostly stationary, and disabling their lasers. Third wave to finish the job. 100 Strikers and 60 Flaks this time. The gunships are firing back but they don't do anything: First wave hits, doing a decent bit of damage. Only two Gunships are intact enough to fire significant amounts after this. Second wave hits, only three gunships are left alive, and they're all drifting. Third wave hits while the carrier flies by. Only one gunship is still technically alive. Coming in for a second pass: And job done. 6 gunships down with no significant damage. I didn't test it in Vesta Overkill, since the amount of lag would be just unbearable. But I'm pretty sure nuking absolutely everything should work just fine there.
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Post by airc777 on Oct 16, 2018 5:16:33 GMT
This is a shameless exact duplication of the above craft because I wanted to see what it would do with 3 of the stock kiloton hydrogen deuteride tanks and the stock hydrogen deturide engines. Turns out it's not great. Its 7.49 thousand tons and 139 million credit to gain 0.5 km/s and lose 320 mg.
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Post by anotherfirefox on Oct 16, 2018 8:16:03 GMT
Is it purist edition? I need to de-gimball stock NTR to make my ship actually roll controllable.
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Oct 16, 2018 8:43:13 GMT
Is it purist edition? I need to de-gimball stock NTR to make my ship actually roll controllable. Purist. IMO that's what actually yields the most interesting challenges - see the Hiveship one.
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Post by anotherfirefox on Oct 16, 2018 15:58:22 GMT
I always find it really hard to understand that why stock ships come with a full variety of guns. I mean, it's a common sense that Dreadnought taught us - Have single type of gun and don't leave your immunity zone. I tried my golden rule, outranging and outmaneuvering, and it worked again. Having 18 Sniper coil gun and never let your opponent even touch you. Time will be on your side.
CraftBlueprint PKC Orca
Description
Modules
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 2 -0.375 null 0 0
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 2 -0.125 null 0 0
600 t Methane Tank 2 32.558 null 0 0
300 t Methane Tank 2 33.634 null 0 0
30 Crew Module 2 33.096 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 49.259 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 59.637 null 0.43633 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 59.637 null 5.8469 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 62.73 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 74.973 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 79.986 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 79.986 null 5.9341 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 86.461 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 86.181 null 5.9341 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 89.266 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 100.92 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 104.19 null 5.8469 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 104.19 null 0.43633 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 110.31 null 5.8469 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 109.06 null 0.43633 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 112.93 null 0 0
6.05 km/s Methane 7 - Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 0 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 52.82 null 0.43633 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 52.82 null 5.8469 0
600 t Methane Tank 2 61.964 null 0 4
600 t Methane Tank 2 100.83 null 0 1
300 t Methane Tank 2 27.104 null 0 7
20.0 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 16.216 null 0 0
20.0 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 17.216 null 0 0
6.05 km/s Methane 7 - Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 0 null 0 2
6.05 km/s Methane 7 - Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 0 null 3.1416 3
4x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 1 22.151 30 Crew Module 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 48.639 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
100x20 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 64.954 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 101.13 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
100x20 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 86.09 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 112.2 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 38.108 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 105.07 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 107.35 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 109.63 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 53.87 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 56.151 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 58.432 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 81.846 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 84.127 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 86.409 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 79.496 null 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 2 80.483 null 0 5
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 2 86.608 null 0 6
5x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 1 28.016 13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 56.596 null 1.5708 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 83.222 null 1.5708 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 107.28 null 1.5708 0
20 Crew Module 2 33.365 null 0 0
2x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 1 20.48 20 Crew Module 0 0
Armor
Shape Hexagonal
Concave false
AspectRatio 2
ArmorLayers
Para-Aramid Fiber 0.0075 0 0 1 1 0
Graphite Aerogel 0.2 0 0 1 1 0
Boron Filament 0.05 0 0 1 0.4 0.8
Graphite Aerogel 0.2 0 0 1 1 0
Aramid Fiber 0.003 0 0 1 1 0
Spider Silk 0.003 0 0 1 1 0
Graphite Aerogel 0.2 0 0 1 1 0
Tin 0.003 0 0 1 1 0
Diamond 0.001 0 0 1 0.4 0.8
Start the battle, delete enemy laser and sniper coil guns, and then carve out enemy modules before they reach you. I defeated 4 gunships, but last 2/3 of the battle I didn't even need to move. I guess this can defeat however many gunships.
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Post by Dhan on Oct 16, 2018 19:20:38 GMT
The lack of guns on those GUNships is concerning
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Post by bigbombr on Oct 16, 2018 19:52:16 GMT
Here's my attempt. I started with the stock Gunship, and then replaced the Reinforced-Carbon-Carbon with Amorpheus Carbon to reduce costs. I made the armor slightly thinner (6.4 cm from 8 cm) to increase delta-v, replaced the 5 mm of Aluminium with 5 mm Spidersilk, set the spacing to 0.3 m (from 1 m) and added an outer armor layer of 5 mm Diamond spaced 0.3 m away. I noticed gunships rarely died from multiple armor penetrations, but rather either by losing all their radiators. So I dumped the Sniper Coilguns, the Heavy Coilguns and the Scatter Railgun and drastically increased the number of Autofire Railguns (from 4 to 18). I added two more 60.4 MW reactors and the appropriate radiators to support them. I replaced the 100 MW Violet Laser with a 13 MW Green Laser to reduce cost as stock lasers are anemic (and the lasers mostly serve to pop unarmored modules and draw fire away from the railgun turrets). Since the stock Gunship can't fire missiles inside combat because the other weapons hog all the power, I replaced the 2 Flak Missile Launchers (with 50 Flak Missiles each) with 10 Flak Missile Blast launchers (carrying 15 Flak Missiles each) meaning it can fire it's missiles in combat and carries 50 more of them. I switched the 40 Crew Module out for a third 25 Crew Module. It can 1v5 the Stock Gunship around Herculina with both AI set to Cunning. CraftBlueprint _BigBombR Gunship
Modules
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 2 -26.845 null 0 0
13.0 MW 11mm Autofire Railgun 6 79.235 null 0.43633 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 10 74.771 null 0.35 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 15.411 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 1.2346 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
6.19 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 4 0 null 0 0
1.000 kt Methane Tank 1 95.43 null 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 29.727 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 1 20.123 null 1.5708 1
25 Crew Module 1 105.3 null 0 0
600 t Methane Tank 3 82.222 null 0 0
1.000 kt Methane Tank 3 43.343 null 0 0
25 Crew Module 1 85.337 null 0 0
13.0 MW 11mm Autofire Railgun 6 124.62 null 0 0
25 Crew Module 1 62.782 null 0 0
20.0 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 -19.638 null 0 0
25.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 189.5 null 0 0
10x4 Silicon Carbide Radiator 2 161.23 25 Crew Module 0 0
10x4 Silicon Carbide Radiator 2 75.09 25 Crew Module 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 44.493 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 147.4 null 0 0
7.00 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 126.35 null 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 58.636 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 148.4 null 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 8 169.87 null 0 0
10x5 Silicon Carbide Radiator 2 69.182 13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 106.41 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
13.0 MW 11mm Autofire Railgun 6 142.95 null 0.43 0
Armor
Shape Cylindrical
Concave true
ArmorLayers
Amorphous Carbon 0.064 0 0 1 1 0
Spider Silk 0.005 0.3 0 1 1 0
Diamond 0.005 0.3 0 1 1 0
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Oct 16, 2018 22:30:33 GMT
Did some testing of my design against the DCA gunship. It has a lot better armor and a highly advanced point defence technology where my framerate drops to 10 seconds per frame as soon as the first nuke hits and the dozens of drop tanks rupture, engaging maximum lag. As a result I needed to destroy the ship in one quick salvo of nukes, since waiting for more waves to arrive after that takes several minutes. I used this highly elegant solution of firing a wave of 140 Frag missiles followed by 80 Strikers. The Frag missiles blow a huge hole through the rear of the gunship and hopefully destroy something important in the process: A bit later the nukes appear. I'm treated to the game apparently freezing while playing the bling bling sound notification occasionally. Eventually the screen refreshes and I can see the end result of all my nukes having done their work: It's a little disappointing for sure, but once we wait for the flash to fade, we see what's left of the gunship. A significant portion of the rear seems to have flown off somewhere else: Here's some more screenies from tests that looked more impressive but ended in the game freezing, or me not firing enough missiles to kill the gunship in one pass. More impressive nuke hits: Not that effective return fire from the piddly stock guns: Close combat carrier operations: Another angle, same situation:
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Post by airc777 on Oct 16, 2018 22:32:53 GMT
Here's my attempt. I started with the stock Gunship, and then replaced the Reinforced-Carbon-Carbon with Amorpheus Carbon to reduce costs. I made the armor slightly thinner (6.4 cm from 8 cm) to increase delta-v, replaced the 5 mm of Aluminium with 5 mm Spidersilk, set the spacing to 0.3 m (from 1 m) and added an outer armor layer of 5 mm Diamond spaced 0.3 m away. I noticed gunships rarely died from multiple armor penetrations, but rather either by losing all their radiators. So I dumped the Sniper Coilguns, the Heavy Coilguns and the Scatter Railgun and drastically increased the number of Autofire Railguns (from 4 to 18). I added two more 60.4 MW reactors and the appropriate radiators to support them. I replaced the 100 MW Violet Laser with a 13 MW Green Laser to reduce cost as stock lasers are anemic (and the lasers mostly serve to pop unarmored modules and draw fire away from the railgun turrets). Since the stock Gunship can't fire missiles inside combat because the other weapons hog all the power, I replaced the 2 Flak Missile Launchers (with 50 Flak Missiles each) with 10 Flak Missile Blast launchers (carrying 15 Flak Missiles each) meaning it can fire it's missiles in combat and carries 50 more of them. I switched the 40 Crew Module out for a third 25 Crew Module. It can 1v5 the Stock Gunship around Herculina with both AI set to Cunning. CraftBlueprint _BigBombR Gunship
Modules
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 2 -26.845 null 0 0
13.0 MW 11mm Autofire Railgun 6 79.235 null 0.43633 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 10 74.771 null 0.35 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 15.411 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 1.2346 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
6.19 km/s Methane Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 4 0 null 0 0
1.000 kt Methane Tank 1 95.43 null 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 29.727 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 1 20.123 null 1.5708 1
25 Crew Module 1 105.3 null 0 0
600 t Methane Tank 3 82.222 null 0 0
1.000 kt Methane Tank 3 43.343 null 0 0
25 Crew Module 1 85.337 null 0 0
13.0 MW 11mm Autofire Railgun 6 124.62 null 0 0
25 Crew Module 1 62.782 null 0 0
20.0 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 -19.638 null 0 0
25.0 m x 0 m Spacer 1 189.5 null 0 0
10x4 Silicon Carbide Radiator 2 161.23 25 Crew Module 0 0
10x4 Silicon Carbide Radiator 2 75.09 25 Crew Module 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 44.493 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 147.4 null 0 0
7.00 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 126.35 null 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 58.636 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 1 148.4 null 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 8 169.87 null 0 0
10x5 Silicon Carbide Radiator 2 69.182 13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 0 0
20x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 4 106.41 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 0 0
13.0 MW 11mm Autofire Railgun 6 142.95 null 0.43 0
Armor
Shape Cylindrical
Concave true
ArmorLayers
Amorphous Carbon 0.064 0 0 1 1 0
Spider Silk 0.005 0.3 0 1 1 0
Diamond 0.005 0.3 0 1 1 0
I'm not familiar with the stock engines, but could you gain efficiency by switching to one of the other fuel types, or to fewer larger methane tanks?
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Post by anotherfirefox on Oct 17, 2018 0:18:34 GMT
Removed some abundancy to optimize and qualified the challenge requirement.
CraftBlueprint PKC Orca s
Description
Modules
60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3 0 null 0 0
600 t Methane Tank 2 32.558 null 0 0
600 t Methane Tank 2 33.634 null 0 0
40 Crew Module 2 33.096 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 59.637 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 59.637 null 5.9341 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 79.986 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 79.986 null 5.9341 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 86.461 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 86.181 null 5.9341 0
6.05 km/s Methane 7 - Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 0 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 52.82 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 52.82 null 5.9341 0
20.0 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 16.216 null 0 0
20.0 m Diameter Polyethylene Radiation Shield 1 17.216 null 0 0
6.11 km/s Methane 3 - Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 0 null 0 4
4x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 1 22.151 40 Crew Module 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 48.639 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 101.13 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 112.2 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
40x10 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 38.108 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 105.07 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 107.35 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 109.63 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 52.589 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 54.87 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 57.151 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 81.846 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 84.127 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 86.409 null 0 0
15x Striker Nuclear Missile Blast Launcher 1 79.496 null 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 2 80.483 null 0 6
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 2 86.608 null 0 7
5x20 Titanium Carbide Radiator 1 28.016 13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser 0 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 56.596 null 1.5708 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 83.222 null 1.5708 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 107.28 null 1.5708 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 111.91 null 0 0
15x Flak Missile Blast Launcher 1 59.432 null 0 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 102.84 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 108.96 null 0.34907 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 102.56 null 5.9341 0
13.0 MW 3mm Sniper Coilgun 1 108.68 null 5.9341 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 58.877 null 1.5708 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 85.503 null 1.5708 0
13.0 MW Nd:YAG Green Laser Turret Mount 2 109.56 null 1.5708 0
6.11 km/s Methane 3 - Gimballed Nuclear Thermal Rocket 1 0 null 3.1416 5
100x20 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 65.292 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
100x20 Silicon Carbide Radiator 1 85.294 60.4 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor 3.1416 0
600 t Methane Tank 2 73.181 null 0 2
600 t Methane Tank 2 33.866 null 0 1
300 t Methane Tank 2 106.11 null 0 3
Armor
Shape Hexagonal
Concave false
AspectRatio 2
ArmorLayers
Para-Aramid Fiber 0.0075 0 0 1 1 0
Graphite Aerogel 0.2 0 0 1 1 0
Boron Filament 0.05 0 0 1 0.4 0.8
Graphite Aerogel 0.2 0 0 1 1 0
Aramid Fiber 0.003 0 0 1 1 0
Spider Silk 0.003 0 0 1 1 0
Graphite Aerogel 0.2 0 0 1 1 0
Tin 0.003 0 0 1 1 0
Diamond 0.001 0 0 1 0.4 0.8
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Post by bigbombr on Oct 17, 2018 6:13:14 GMT
I'm not familiar with the stock engines, but could you gain efficiency by switching to one of the other fuel types, or to fewer larger methane tanks? Methane is a decent all-round propellant. Denser propellant would make for a smaller cross section (and might overall give a slight upgrade) but have lower exhaust velocity and I don't want to decrease delta-v from where it is now. Hydrogen and hydrogen deuteride have a very low density and result in massive cross section bloat. And it has currently the stock methane engines with the highest exhaust velocity. Propulsion and propellant-wise, improvements could probably be made, but they'd probably be fairly minor and I wanted to stick as close to the original design as possible. Hence why I modified the stock Gunship rather than starting from a blank slate.
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Post by AtomHeartDragon on Oct 17, 2018 9:59:36 GMT
I always find it really hard to understand that why stock ships come with a full variety of guns. I mean, it's a common sense that Dreadnought taught us - Have single type of gun and don't leave your immunity zone. It is also common sense that you don't slow down if you want to catch up with another ship in front of you, yet that's not how space works. Myself I'm firmly in the mixed battery camp. Space and sea warfare couldn't be more different if they tried: - On the sea mass is pretty much free (not entirely, but compared to space?), manoeuvres are free, ships are easy to armour and you are engaging pretty much stationary targets at easily maintained constant distance. All sorts of scaling laws, largely in regards to aerodynamics, dictate that ships fire as heavy shells as possible relatively slowly against each other.
- In space mass is prohibitively expensive, so are manoeuvres, ships are hard to armour - both because of mass constraints (trying to stop a naval artillery shell with something that passes for heavy armour in COADE would be like trying to stop an AMR round with a sheet of plywood) and because of fragile components that need to be exposed - like radiators and engines, you are often engaging targets that move faster than your weapons' fire and they hurtle by in minutes or seconds rapidly crossing your "immunity zone". Since aerodynamics doesn't apply and most worthwhile guns are ME based, you have a largely different set of scaling laws and mostly fire at fast moving targets, resulting in most guns rapidly firing tiny specks of metal at ludicrous speed (unless outright going plaid). EM guns and lasers also need obscene amounts of power that in turn demand massive radiators.
Since the engagement parameters rapidly change over the course of space battle it makes sense to pack multiple batteries to switch between. Since you need to make many compromises when designing a ship, it also becomes easier to find and exploit weaknesses of individual weapon systems and ship designs - with defenders knowing for a long time what is coming they have a lot of time to prepare tactics and field weapons aimed specifically to exploit attackers' weaknesses, which in turn means that attacking with homogeneous stuff is a bad idea. And since extra mass is so hard to move around, and since most weapons need a lot of extra mass in the form of powerplants, their radiators, CM- and ship-level crew, armour, and finally engines and propellant that themselves require engines and propellant to be moved around, you benefit from sharing those components between multiple weapon systems, thus mixing them on your ships. And then you have your typical high-velocity intercept (basically anywhere but the Belt), where mixed battery allows you to defeat enemy armour much easier because it lets you put the enemy ship in a crossfire even with single ship of your own, where single optimal armour orientation no longer exists (maybe a case for saucer ships?). Your ship is really hard to test - if controlled by AI it gets readily shot to pieces by my stuff, even though it maintains correct orientation, at least until losing the turrets and some tankage (at least it is fairly safe for the crew as most of the time you could pull everyone out of the wreckage). If manually controlled I can wreck my stuff with it if I keep thrusting continuously (COADE really needs some better gun laying algorithms - thrusting continuously in one direction should get you shot up reliably), but it's really hard to maintain orientation and it doesn't kill stuff all that fast.
Tightly clustered, exposed blast launchers are also prone to sympathetic detonation - both of launchers themselves and their tightly clustered missile salvoes.
In the original version it was also under dv and over the budget, haven't looked at the improved one yet. Propulsion and propellant-wise, improvements could probably be made, but they'd probably be fairly minor and I wanted to stick as close to the original design as possible. Hence why I modified the stock Gunship rather than starting from a blank slate. Heh. My "Dragon" class gunship originally (as in "back when we only had convex, cylindrical hulls") started as modification to Laser Frigate improving manoeuvrability, powerplant and its resilience and fielding a redundant array of 60MW coilguns, though you probably couldn't tell now. I'm not familiar with the stock engines, but could you gain efficiency by switching to one of the other fuel types, or to fewer larger methane tanks? The main problem with other propellants is that with stock engines methane is the only high-thrust NTR option, especially now that we've got the new 3x and 7x engines (before those you still needed to supplement your main engines with chemical ones if you wanted bursts of acceleration or fast turns on a large ship). Everything else is just wimpy and makes you a sitting duck if you are confined to stock propulsion. As for the large tanks, they have one big issue - they can be penetrated, at which point: - You lose all or significant portion of your delta-v
- You experience reaction force from several kt of propellant venting that spins your ship up and, at best makes it impossible to aim, reorient or manoeuvre and likely exposes the weakest parts of your ship to direct fire, at worst kills your crew outright.
Multiple tanks can also make better use of ship's internal space if you go for a flattened hull.
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Post by anotherfirefox on Oct 17, 2018 10:59:56 GMT
Since mass is expensive in space, I don't get why you have to carry deadweights wait to get their range. If you have single range, you can always shoot with full power - if you carefully maneuver. I found that pushing closest approach some kilometers away or even denying the engagement is not that expensive in terms of dV and if you can have distant closest approach fast relative velocity means enemy can't approach you with given time. In contrast to naval battle, immunity zone is gained by maneuvering, not armoring.
CDE's AI is extremely poor at both maneuvering and aiming, but I as said one day if your enemy aim to saturate going perpendicular is always better.
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Post by Dhan on Oct 18, 2018 2:30:55 GMT
Here's my submission. The main differences are the armor and the fact that I stripped all the superfluous weaponry and swapped the 100 MW laser with 4 13 MW lasers (which are a bit underwhelming to be honest). I doubled up on power generation to have more guns on target (note there are still more guns than there is power for), which means I ended up with huge radiators due to unoptimized stock reactors. Even though I started from scratch, I somehow still ended up with the same exact cross section. The ship: And the 5 dead gunships:
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