|
Post by fallingaggressively on Jan 17, 2018 20:19:38 GMT
I was wondering about some depictions of lasers as cannons with low rates of short pulse firing and the reason they would wind up being that way. From what I understand, simply making the laser larger would allow heat build up to be dealt with more easily which means ‘cannon’ style lasers wouldn’t be a worth while alternative to a larger sustained fire style.
So is there a good reason why you might go for a short fire laser over a long fire one? Are there real engineering difficulties cooling or even making larger lasers?
Just how handwavey is COADE’s engineering?
|
|
|
Post by apophys on Jan 17, 2018 23:29:50 GMT
Pulsing a laser like that means building up electric charge over a period of time for a short attacking burst of very high intensity. The intensity, and thus range, is higher than an equivalent continuous laser can achieve. The tradeoff is that the rate of damage is reduced.
It would be nice if CoaDE could have pulsed lasers at some point. But first some bugs and limits regarding lasers would have to be worked on (ablation rate capped per laser, large arbitrary inaccuracy worse than Hubble, arbitrary M^2 lower limit, 10 Mm max draw distance).
|
|
|
Post by newageofpower on Jan 17, 2018 23:41:42 GMT
Pulsing a laser like that means building up electric charge over a period of time for a short attacking burst of very high intensity. The intensity, and thus range, is higher than an equivalent continuous laser can achieve. The tradeoff is that the rate of damage is reduced. It would be nice if CoaDE could have pulsed lasers at some point. But first some bugs and limits regarding lasers would have to be worked on (ablation rate capped per laser, large arbitrary inaccuracy worse than Hubble, arbitrary M^2 lower limit, 10 Mm max draw distance). The arbitrary inaccuracy is a PIA.
|
|
|
Post by fallingaggressively on Jan 18, 2018 0:55:07 GMT
From what I seen with the coilgun capacitors, I’d have though you wouldn’t be able to store enough energy to make it better than more lasers?
|
|
|
Post by AdmiralObvious on Jan 18, 2018 6:51:23 GMT
I thought the purpose of pulsed lasers was to "shock" the target into cracking it's structure/armor. Granted that would be at higher intensity for the power requirement.
Regular lasers work by doing a continuous burn, and abating the target. I think if you can match the output intensity of a pulsed laser to a standard continously firing laser, the continuous firing laser should burn through the target faster, unless the pulsed lasers work like a HESH shell, like I think they do.
|
|
|
Post by fallingaggressively on Jan 18, 2018 7:30:57 GMT
I did a little reading as I thought that too and as I understand it the pulse will shock the target material rather than burn it, but pulsing in this way is done with nanosecond pulses (femto in some cases. I'm not sure of the exact range) and it can be fired in this way as long as you apply power creating a drilling effect. The actual power usage gets averaged out over time, so you can have pulse lasers that are a continuously pulsed beam. Is there a minimum power threshold for a pulse laser to be effective in this way?
I'm mashing the terminology here I'm sure but I don't know how else to say it.
I do like the idea of the range v damage trade off.
I thought the inaccuracy was a collective of all the things that should affect it. Not just sensors but vibration etc. Is the value not moddable? I've not looked.
Thank you all for taking time to reply to this btw.
|
|
|
Post by matterbeam on Jan 18, 2018 13:37:05 GMT
The advantage of pulsed lasers is that the little amount of armor material that they vaporize expands like an explosion. This imposes mechanical stresses on the surrounding material.
If the pulses contain enough energy, they can break apart and shear off large amounts of surrounding material.
Digging out armor in this way requires much less energy per kg than fully vaporizing the material. So, a pulsed laser will have better penetration rates than a continuous laser of the same average power. Luke Campbell states that 40x better penetration rate is possible, although I believe this depends strongly on how strong the armor is.
This is also why I do not believe some of the most effective anti-laser armor materials on COADE are not realistic. Aerogel is great in terms of vaporization energy per kg... but it is so weak that any plasma expansion will blow out huge chunks of it.
|
|
|
Post by Rocket Witch on Jan 18, 2018 14:02:21 GMT
Are there real engineering difficulties cooling or even making larger lasers? Cooling: Larger objects are more difficult to cool uniformly as thermal diffusivity and conductivity remain finite and quite constant, so coolant has to travel faster, which means higher pressure which starts to run up against structural limits. Really just square cube law stuff that applies to everything. Making: Increasingly large mirrors and especially crystals are difficult as the odds of a defect appearing in each unit is greater. These components would also need specialised factories (eg. France kept 1-man tank turrets in the Interbellum since they couldn't cast bigger ones), though these could already be relatively widespread in a space-based economy where ships may have large optics for navigation and anti-spacejunk lasers. As an alternative, I think you can make a convergent array of smaller lasers, but this probably has its own challenges someone else would have to weigh in on. Just how handwavey is COADE’s engineering? See 'ultimate simulation limitations' in the ingame infolinks. Also plumbing, wiring, service tunnels, etc. are not depicted; putting the reactor and radiators for it on opposite ends of a ship has no negative consequences, and neither does filling that space with bullets to destroy the pipes.
|
|
|
Post by Kerr on Jan 18, 2018 14:54:39 GMT
Pulsed laser beams are achieved by using a special optical element in a CW laser beam. Q-switching, Mode Locking and Gain switching are the three most used methods of creating pulsed laser beams. But they don't fire with delay of seconds or milliseconds. Most Pulsed lasers have repetition rates ranging from kHz to MHz. Their advantage is in their increased peak power. A laser emitting 10,000 one nanosecond 100kJ Pulses per second has a peak power of 100GW, but a average power output of 1GW. The laser pulse vaporizes materials within microsecond-nanoseconds which creates a explosion of the hot vapor/plasma. This way very high "vapor jet" pressures are achieved, they can also cause hydrostatic shock when the materials ablation rate exceeds the speed of sound in the material, the result are powerful shockwaves that when being reflected from the other side of the armor plate can cause chunks of the armor being turned into deadly projectiles. Based on Luke Campbell's laser calculator pulsing a beam can increase it's penetration factor by up to 5, but only in rare cases where the intensity per square meter is enormous. The main advantage in space based long range lasers lies in their ability to fire a quick intense photon beam. Which doesn't suffer from the ablated material of the armor being in the way, which can diffract or absorb parts of the laser light limiting effectiveness at high intensities in CW lasers.
|
|
|
Post by fallingaggressively on Jan 18, 2018 17:47:52 GMT
Awesome answers.
Would a pulse laser still need the same kind of cooling or does the heat load average out as well?
|
|
|
Post by AdmiralObvious on Jan 18, 2018 21:15:20 GMT
Awesome answers. Would a pulse laser still need the same kind of cooling or does the heat load average out as well? Pretty much all lasers need to be cooled somehow. Even our dinky cat toy lasers need cooling, but that's usually done as a result of the air around it. I guess you could say a pulsed laser would be easier to cool, but again that'd depend on the frequency of the pulsing (though that in turn depends on if the lasing cavity/generators is/are constantly used, or pulsing too). That's not even mentioning the mechanical stresses on the mirrors too.
|
|
|
Post by Kerr on Jan 18, 2018 21:16:49 GMT
Awesome answers. Would a pulse laser still need the same kind of cooling or does the heat load average out as well? The beam generator needs the same cooling as it still produces a continous wave. The extra waste heat comes from the pulser.
|
|
|
Post by fallingaggressively on Jan 18, 2018 23:57:49 GMT
Awesome answers. Would a pulse laser still need the same kind of cooling or does the heat load average out as well? The beam generator needs the same cooling as it still produces a continous wave. The extra waste heat comes from the pulser. Oh I never realised! So the pulse mechanism is storing the low power beam energy rather than electrical energy being stored to fire a more powerful laser generator? Does the pulser have a mass ratio to the beam generator or anything for easy guesses to the mass of the whole assembly?
|
|
|
Post by fallingaggressively on Jan 19, 2018 19:23:08 GMT
So I did some more reading and I realized that the pulser is not a separate component so much as a different way of controlling the gain medium output. I think.
I have a lot more reading to do...
|
|
|
Post by Kerr on Jan 19, 2018 19:32:44 GMT
|
|