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Post by srbrant on Jul 14, 2017 3:28:05 GMT
Back onto more relevant topics, are there any sort of benefits to a warship with an asymmetrical arrangement? I imagine there could be if one wanted to keep a vital component out of harm's way.
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Post by lennson on Jul 14, 2017 5:03:50 GMT
This might not be what you had in mind but I think think breaking from x-y symmetry (i.e. knife or dish shape instead of cone / cylinder) would result in ships that would resist kinetics much better both by being harder to hit and having better deflection / area of impact.
edit: Another idea would be to have a ship with a long boom and a counter mass allowing the actual ship to be able to be constantly in a wide arc roll about the center of mass between the ship and the counter mass. Hitting either the ship or the counter mass probably would be quite difficult due to the rotation.
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Post by Dhan on Jul 14, 2017 5:29:34 GMT
You get a free admission to fun town if your engines malfunction or are disabled
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Post by omnipotentvoid on Jul 14, 2017 5:45:25 GMT
You'll want some sort of symetry in your ship, or engine setup will be a nightmare. Also (as allready mentioned) woe to yow if one of your engines loses thrust.
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Post by someusername6 on Jul 14, 2017 12:18:07 GMT
Armoring just one side of the ship, putting all weapons there and having that side face the enemy was kind of popular in previous patches for COADE. But then came along extruded turrets, which can turn 90 degrees, and we came back to facing forward / minimizing the cross section exposed to the enemy.
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Post by Durandal on Jul 14, 2017 12:56:26 GMT
I still advocate for broadside designs in certain circumstances. A laserstar laid out broadside-fashion with a strong resistojet on the end can allow for 'ok' performance, but maneuvering is tricky.
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Post by bigbombr on Jul 14, 2017 12:59:23 GMT
I still advocate for broadside designs in certain circumstances. A laserstar laid out broadside-fashion with a strong resistojet on the end can allow for 'ok' performance, but maneuvering is tricky. Nose forward with lateral dodging would be far superior.
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Post by Durandal on Jul 14, 2017 13:01:26 GMT
I still advocate for broadside designs in certain circumstances. A laserstar laid out broadside-fashion with a strong resistojet on the end can allow for 'ok' performance, but maneuvering is tricky. Nose forward with lateral dodging would be far superior. Of course. But the AI isn't that great with lateral dodging, and it can be a hassle naming individual translation engines for port, starboard, dorsal, and ventral and then lining up the thrust vector so the ship doesn't spin. It would be nice if we could control engine burns like we can payload-firing cannon in the tactical screen.
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Post by omnipotentvoid on Jul 14, 2017 14:34:40 GMT
The AI isn't great period.
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Post by treptoplax on Jul 14, 2017 15:25:03 GMT
I still advocate for broadside designs in certain circumstances. A laserstar laid out broadside-fashion with a strong resistojet on the end can allow for 'ok' performance, but maneuvering is tricky. Nose forward with lateral dodging would be far superior. I used to agree but now am not 100% sure about this. If the pattern of misses/error is symmetrical with respect to x/y, but non-uniform (hit probably is highest at intended target and drops off as you go out), then I think there's actually benefit to spreading out vulnerable components so that near-misses at laser #1 are unlikely to hit laser #7 and vice-versa. Lasers would actually be less vulnerable broadside (obviously, if you had a bunch of laser drones you'ld want them spread out, not tightly clustered). OTOH broadside is *much* more exposed to damage to fuel tanks, crew, etc. I believe carriers definitely want to be nose-forward-lateral-dodging if feasible. I *think* lasers want to be broadside if low-powered-long-range sniping of lasers is the worry, and if you're worried about heavy weapons hitting your lasership it's probably in deep trouble anyway.
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Post by Durandal on Jul 14, 2017 16:03:52 GMT
Nose forward with lateral dodging would be far superior. I used to agree but now am not 100% sure about this. If the pattern of misses/error is symmetrical with respect to x/y, but non-uniform (hit probably is highest at intended target and drops off as you go out), then I think there's actually benefit to spreading out vulnerable components so that near-misses at laser #1 are unlikely to hit laser #7 and vice-versa. Lasers would actually be less vulnerable broadside (obviously, if you had a bunch of laser drones you'ld want them spread out, not tightly clustered). OTOH broadside is *much* more exposed to damage to fuel tanks, crew, etc. I believe carriers definitely want to be nose-forward-lateral-dodging if feasible. I *think* lasers want to be broadside if low-powered-long-range sniping of lasers is the worry, and if you're worried about heavy weapons hitting your lasership it's probably in deep trouble anyway. I've found that with broadside laserstars it doesn't matter when it comes to laser dueling. If the enemy has Las superiority the broadside ship will be disarmed. Especially when fighting a drone swarm or multiple laserstar capitals. I believe the main advantage is KE avoidance from near misses and perhaps allowing for a wider "field of view" for lasing missiles.
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Post by cyborgleopard on Jul 14, 2017 17:19:52 GMT
I still build my spacecraft in this fashion, even though I do not seem to be in the majority in doing so. Building asymmetrically allows you to have your radiators completely covered. Putting radiators edge-on to the enemy is nice, but they are still exposed and precise weapons or lucky shots would be able to take them out.
Admittedly, I've fantasized about a knife-shaped spacecraft with steeply sloped armor that broadsides enemies with kinetics and possibly has lasers for backup. All of the radiators would be on the reversed side of the spacecraft. It would have trade offs with the traditional cylindrical CDE designs (poor mass ratio) but would probably have its own benefits (small cross section, sloped armor.)
I have also considered what benefit saucer-shaped craft might have.
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Post by Durandal on Jul 14, 2017 17:36:16 GMT
I still build my spacecraft in this fashion, even though I do not seem to be in the majority in doing so. Building asymmetrically allows you to have your radiators completely covered. Putting radiators edge-on to the enemy is nice, but they are still exposed and precise weapons or lucky shots would be able to take them out. Admittedly, I've fantasized about a knife-shaped spacecraft with steeply sloped armor that broadsides enemies with kinetics and possibly has lasers for backup. All of the radiators would be on the reversed side of the spacecraft. It would have trade offs with the traditional cylindrical CDE designs (poor mass ratio) but would probably have its own benefits (small cross section, sloped armor.) I have also considered what benefit saucer-shaped craft might have. I messed with saucers a few updates ago. The way the ship designer works makes radiators can be a pain, but they allow for a massive amount of weaponry to be mounted on the leading edge. The only issue is if the ship rotates so that its flat sides are towards the enemy it's literally a giant bullseye. That, and getting propellant tanks to work with them is a bit of a nightmare too.
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Post by nerd1000 on Jul 15, 2017 13:09:09 GMT
Asymmetry has another benefit if you're keen on using aerobraking (and let's face it, unless you're a giga-laser dreadnaught with overpowered MPD thrusters you probably NEED to use aerobraking). That advantage is, of course, the opportunity to produce lift- far more than what's achievable with any symmetrical design.
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Post by omnipotentvoid on Jul 15, 2017 14:09:43 GMT
Aerobreaking useually causes some ablation, possibly destroying wipple shields. This means weakening armor in order to enter the AO. It also leaves a ship as a sitting duck for attacks from higher orbit, as it can't dodge for risk of losing or gaining to much altitude. Civilian ships may be built to use aerobreaking, but not millitary ones, as the manuever would be suicide in combat and designing a ship to have the capability would have drawbacks over not doing so in terms of the combat capabilities of the ship.
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