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Post by The Astronomer on Nov 12, 2017 10:16:24 GMT
What. Stock reactors only go up to 60.4 MW. Edit: Holy shit are graphene thermocouples good. Must have grabbed that 542 MW reactor off of steam or the forums then. I've never been too familiar with what is and isn't a stock design, especially after how much custom stuff I now have or have downloaded. Graphene thermocouple are pretty good if you can keep them from shattering from thermal expansion stress. As far as I've played around with thermocouple materials graphene and another carbon work well together at relatively low temps. Anything else becomes rather bulky pretty fast or is just plain useless. There is a clear distinction between stock stuffs and player stuffs. They're literally divided by a thin line.
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Post by jtyotjotjipaefvj on Nov 12, 2017 11:27:25 GMT
This is the best I've been able to come up with: It's a 1.15 GW 10 ton reactor with a rather low outlet temp of 1800k ,but an exceptional efficiency of 33.9% due to its Graphene/ Pyrolytic Carbon thermocouple. Its based off of the stock 542 MW reactor as I'm terrible at reactors for now. It only costs 178 Kc which is exceptionally cheap for a reactor of its power output as far as I can tell. Also only puts off 3.44 GW of heat which is also pretty low. That's pretty neat, though somewhat limited by the low exit temp. I think you should be able to go higher by switching to Hafnium-Carbide control rods, it should give you some 200 K more in reactor temperature tolerance. I ran your reactor through a radiator calculator I made and yours still loses out to the AE 1 GW reactor in radiator area due to how strongly surface temperature affects radiator power output. The AE 1.01 GW reactor needs ~2900 m² of radiators to stay cool, whereas yours needs ~5700 m². You still have a lower heat signature, but at 3.3 GW you might as well not bother thinking about that. Maybe the higher efficiency would be useful on lower-power reactors, allowing ships to have a few MWs of power while still having a low heat profile to avoid missiles. My calculations and a link to the calculator in spoilers below:
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Post by thehardestmetal on Nov 12, 2017 20:32:27 GMT
This is the best I've been able to come up with: It's a 1.15 GW 10 ton reactor with a rather low outlet temp of 1800k ,but an exceptional efficiency of 33.9% due to its Graphene/ Pyrolytic Carbon thermocouple. Its based off of the stock 542 MW reactor as I'm terrible at reactors for now. It only costs 178 Kc which is exceptionally cheap for a reactor of its power output as far as I can tell. Also only puts off 3.44 GW of heat which is also pretty low. That's pretty neat, though somewhat limited by the low exit temp. I think you should be able to go higher by switching to Hafnium-Carbide control rods, it should give you some 200 K more in reactor temperature tolerance. I ran your reactor through a radiator calculator I made and yours still loses out to the AE 1 GW reactor in radiator area due to how strongly surface temperature affects radiator power output. The AE 1.01 GW reactor needs ~2900 m² of radiators to stay cool, whereas yours needs ~5700 m². You still have a lower heat signature, but at 3.3 GW you might as well not bother thinking about that. Maybe the higher efficiency would be useful on lower-power reactors, allowing ships to have a few MWs of power while still having a low heat profile to avoid missiles. I tweaked the reactor a bit like you suggested and got temps up to 2300 K but at a generating loss approaching 200 MW. Mass and cost increased quite a bit, but the radiator area decrease and delta-v gain were pretty significant as your calculator indicated. I settled on 2200 K so I could squeeze a bit more power out of my reactor while still getting the benefit of hotter radiators. A further modification with additional tweaking with an outlet temp of 2000 K generates almost the same amount of power as my initial design and is nearly as efficient as well!
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Post by RiftandRend on Nov 12, 2017 23:55:26 GMT
Radiators tend to be the most vulnerable part of a ship and usually have a higher cost and mass then the reactors they cool. I recommend making the outlet as high as possible. The savings in radiator mass and cost are usually much greater than the increase in reactor mass and cost for the same power output.
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Post by newageofpower on Nov 13, 2017 2:18:11 GMT
IIRC Amimai and apo-chan did some experiments about a year ago; for warships with armored or redundant radiators, 2500k-2600k is preferable. For civillian ships with paper thin zero redundancy radiators, 2400k was optimal.
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Post by EshaNas on Nov 13, 2017 10:18:30 GMT
Radiators tend to be the most vulnerable part of a ship and usually have a higher cost and mass then the reactors they cool. I recommend making the outlet as high as possible. The savings in radiator mass and cost are usually much greater than the increase in reactor mass and cost for the same power output/ Could shaping radiators differently help? Say, a curved radiator over the hull or so? I know 'skin' radiators existed for the Apollo Manned module, but what about for reactor and engines?
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Post by thehardestmetal on Nov 13, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
Radiators tend to be the most vulnerable part of a ship and usually have a higher cost and mass then the reactors they cool. I recommend making the outlet as high as possible. The savings in radiator mass and cost are usually much greater than the increase in reactor mass and cost for the same power output/ Could shaping radiators differently help? Say, a curved radiator over the hull or so? I know 'skin' radiators existed for the Apollo Manned module, but what about for reactor and engines? By covering the surface area of your hull with radiators you give up the advantages that the current panel radiators have. In terms of warships you would now take damage to both your radiators and your hull at the same time instead of damage being separated to one or the other in most cases. Radiator area is now limited by the surface area of your ship. You also get effectively half the radiator area per radiator surface area due to one side facing your hull. At the temps most warship radiators run at( 2000K- 2500K) you would need to insulate the hull facing side of the radiator to prevent heat damage of the hull materials. If you didn't you would suffer vaporization of volatiles( carbons and polymers) softening or outright melting of a fair number of metals, astronomical amounts of additional cooling for the crew compartment and cryogenic fuels, and many more bad effects. You are also unable to orient the ship in such a way to minimize your heat signature. You now have to build your radiators individually tailored to each ship or hull type which could greatly increase cost. Mounting weaponry would be significantly more difficult as you will need to design your radiators with weapons cutouts instead of just plopping them down anywhere there's room. Depending on how tall the radiators are, they may also restrict your field of fire. Additional modification of armament will also be limited. You are no longer able to just whack a hole in your ship and stick a new turret or missile hatch through it. Instead, you will have to remove existing weapons to add new ones. It would also make docking more difficult because you are blasting heat in all directions instead of just one plane. The only real reason I see that type of radiator as applicable is when low profile is absolutely critical. It would probably work better in civilian applications where they run at lower temps and power demands would be much lower.
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Post by EshaNas on Nov 14, 2017 16:21:14 GMT
Those are extreme disadvantages, ach.
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Post by Rocket Witch on Nov 21, 2017 17:42:03 GMT
There is a clear distinction between stock stuffs and player stuffs. They're literally divided by a thin line. In terms of the expression, a fine line usually denotes an unclear distinction. §ԾᴗԾ§
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Post by Enderminion on Nov 21, 2017 17:45:43 GMT
there is no distinction between core modules and modules in the imports file, if the 542Mw reactor was downloaded from steam workshop or placed in the imports file it would appear with core modules
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Post by apophys on Dec 19, 2017 15:43:26 GMT
IIRC Amimai and apo-chan did some experiments about a year ago; for warships with armored or redundant radiators, 2500k-2600k is preferable. For civilian ships with paper thin zero redundancy radiators, 2400k was optimal. After that, an update came that introduced prismatic reactor cores (i.e. higher melting temp limits). That changed optimal points, and now paper-thin radiators also prefer to sit around 2500 K. This is the reason I stopped providing separate reactor series for 2400 K and for 2500 K; there is no longer a need for the distinction.
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Post by newageofpower on Dec 19, 2017 16:19:44 GMT
IIRC Amimai and apo-chan did some experiments about a year ago; for warships with armored or redundant radiators, 2500k-2600k is preferable. For civilian ships with paper thin zero redundancy radiators, 2400k was optimal. After that, an update came that introduced prismatic reactor cores (i.e. higher melting temp limits). That changed optimal points, and now paper-thin radiators also prefer to sit around 2500 K. This is the reason I stopped providing separate reactor series for 2400 K and for 2500 K; there is no longer a need for the distinction. You're alive!
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Post by whatever on Dec 19, 2017 22:25:07 GMT
I've been messing about with really hot reactors, and thought the results might be worth sharing. I ended up aiming for a thermocouple outlet temperature of 3100K, since I found that higher temperatures made it very difficult to generate any worthwhile amount of electricity. Even at that temperature, the efficiencies are laughably low (1.4-1.8%). Firstly, this is a moderately lightweight design which I intended to be used to test whether large fleets of relatively cheap drones with low-power lasers would be effective (answer: not really, but they do look very cool). After that, I scaled the design up to make something in appproximately the same ballpark as the stock 13.5MW reactor. It's nowhere near as efficient as some of the reactors in this thread, but it appears to quarter the required radiator area compared with the stock version, and makes the radiators easy to hide behind a hull bulge with the new concave armour. After that I scaled up again into the GW range. At this point the size of the thermocouple becomes truly ridiculous (and it was already pretty bad in the smaller models), and the thermal output begins to exceed that of some countries. Lastly, I tried to raise the radiator temperature as high as I could while still being able to generate some amount of electricity. I managed a respectable 3290K, although the resultant design is not in any sense practical. Overall, the trade-offs in material choice and thermocouple size seem to make these designs fairly impractical. In particular, as people had already pointed out earlier in the thread, the low efficiency counteracts much of the savings in radiator mass. However, they are somewhat useful for designing ships where the radiators are totally protected from incoming fire from the front.
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Post by toastyoats on Jan 3, 2018 13:11:53 GMT
How you fellas go about learning how to make reliable reactor?
I'm finally at the point in the campaign where I can tinker with modules and Apophys mentioned making Hot Drones as a form of missile decoy.
But I don't know my ass from a hole in the ground on making a hot drone that'd crank out enough heat to decoy from a multi-Kiloton combat ship.
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Post by boersgard on Aug 14, 2018 0:43:46 GMT
Radiators tend to be the most vulnerable part of a ship and usually have a higher cost and mass then the reactors they cool. I recommend making the outlet as high as possible. The savings in radiator mass and cost are usually much greater than the increase in reactor mass and cost for the same power output/ Could shaping radiators differently help? Say, a curved radiator over the hull or so? I know 'skin' radiators existed for the Apollo Manned module, but what about for reactor and engines? Yeah, but there's issues as was mentioned by others. There IS a radiator design that partially mitigates it - rather than covering the hull in a radiator you cover it in a reflector and spray coolant right out into space down along parallel to the hull, to be caught and recycled at the bottom of the rocket. Compared with regular radiators it has the following benefits: + Rocket can stay well armored + Radiator is MUCH more resistant to damage and easier to armor + Weighs much less than a normal radiator + Has more surface area than a regular radiator covering the same area + Is more efficient than a regular radiator And downsides: - You lose coolant over time - You especially lose coolant during maneuvers - Higher coolant requirements eat into some of the other efficiency gains - If you run out of coolant you're in trouble - You lose efficiency from half the surface area you're radiating into being your own ship
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