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Post by The Astronomer on May 1, 2017 10:24:37 GMT
Anyways, now I need the reactors, not just radiation shield... Boron Carbide's melting point is too low for current reactors... What do you mean by current reactors? It seems this thread is about improving on some kind of reactor design, made by apophys it seems. But that design are never linked here. It seems you also expect to see some specific operating temperature, but that is never mentioned in the requirements either. Here. Apophys reactors. I'll update the thread.
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Post by jasonvance on May 1, 2017 19:45:01 GMT
What do you mean by current reactors? It seems this thread is about improving on some kind of reactor design, made by apophys it seems. But that design are never linked here. It seems you also expect to see some specific operating temperature, but that is never mentioned in the requirements either. Here. Apophys reactors. I'll update the thread. I do like how over half of those pertaining to the challenge are mine but I never get credit (there are also 100MW ones further down in the post but the thread owner kind of disappeared)
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Post by The Astronomer on May 2, 2017 2:41:09 GMT
Here. Apophys reactors. I'll update the thread. I do like how over half of those pertaining to the challenge are mine but I never get credit (there are also 100MW ones further down in the post but the thread owner kind of disappeared) Somehow your company hasn't registered on the Project Prosperous...Anyways, I'll use the name 'Jasonvance Industries' tell me if you want to change.
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Post by hyno111 on May 7, 2017 12:23:34 GMT
So, no one want to submit anything? ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 100.0 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor UsesCustomName false ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.25 0.11 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-235 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 100 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.05 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 25 NeutronReflector Boron Nitride ReflectorThickness_m 0.45 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 3.5e+019 InnerTurbopump Composition Boron Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.31 RotationalSpeed_RPM 890 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1 2.6 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2400 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Calcium PumpRadius_m 0.31 RotationalSpeed_RPM 730
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Post by The Astronomer on May 7, 2017 15:17:01 GMT
So, no one want to submit anything?
ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 100.0 MW Thermoelectric Fission Reactor UsesCustomName false ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.25 0.11 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 0 Fuel U-235 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 100 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.05 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 25 NeutronReflector Boron Nitride ReflectorThickness_m 0.45 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 3.5e+019 InnerTurbopump Composition Boron Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.31 RotationalSpeed_RPM 890 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1 2.6 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Osmium NTypeComposition Tungsten Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2400 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Calcium PumpRadius_m 0.31 RotationalSpeed_RPM 730
Awesome! Thanks! Finally the first submission ;u; This will be linked to the thread post.
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Post by Argopeilacos on May 7, 2017 20:01:50 GMT
My take on jasonvance's 10MW reactor (possibly an older iteration), 100K from meltdown. ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 10.6MW Safe UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.097 0.099 NuclearReactor Coolant Sodium Moderator Diamond ModeratorMass_kg 1 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 12 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.05 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 3.22 NeutronReflector Diamond ReflectorThickness_m 0 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 3.5e+019 InnerTurbopump Composition Amorphous Carbon PumpRadius_m 0.26 RotationalSpeed_RPM 400 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 0.5 0.65 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Tungsten NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2400 OuterCoolant Sodium OuterTurbopump Composition Lithium PumpRadius_m 0.1 RotationalSpeed_RPM 460
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Post by ash19256 on May 8, 2017 6:05:35 GMT
Honestly, if you guys don't mind really heavy mods, my Graphene coated fuel and control rod reactors are probably more than enough for this challenge, unless there are concerns about the melting point of the inner loop turbo-pump. And even then, it's still IIRC for the most part somewhere approaching 100+ Kelvin away from meltdown (with the exception of the 1 GW reactor I have, which I've constantly been having difficulty trying to optimize. If you guys want, I'll get some screen shots and such and share them with you guys.
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Post by The Astronomer on May 8, 2017 6:09:58 GMT
Actually the reactor temp's a bit confusing. The displayed T is significantly lower than the melt point of the fuel, yet the warning pops up.
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Post by jasonvance on May 8, 2017 7:32:34 GMT
Actually the reactor temp's a bit confusing. The displayed T is significantly lower than the melt point of the fuel, yet the warning pops up. That is because the temp values listed show the coolant's temp, not the reactor's temp. On my reactors that are a few mili-K away from meltdown the coolant temp leaving the reactor is only 2910 K. That means the reactor is right at 3140K and the flow rate at 2910K is enough to keep continuing to rise. But if your coolant flow off the reactor reads 2910K that does not mean your fuel rod temp is 2910K. I'm sure there is a formula with thermal conductivity of the coolant / fuel rods / flow rate and what not you could use to number crunch for this challenge though if you wanted to. Here are two screenshots showing the fuel rods melting at 2911K vs not melting at 2910K. To make the challenge easier you could just say reach meltdown then reduce coolant temp by an extra 10 degrees I guess if you don't want to dig up formulas (I have been avoiding this challenge due to this ambiguity myself).
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Post by The Astronomer on May 8, 2017 7:36:53 GMT
Actually the reactor temp's a bit confusing. The displayed T is significantly lower than the melt point of the fuel, yet the warning pops up. That is because the temp values listed show the coolant's temp, not the reactor's temp. On my reactors that are a few mili-K away from meltdown the coolant temp leaving the reactor is only 2910 K. That means the reactor is right at 3140K and the flow rate at 2910K is enough to keep continuing to rise. But if your coolant flow off the reactor reads 2910K that does not mean your fuel rod temp is 2910K. I'm sure there is a formula with thermal conductivity of the coolant / fuel rods / flow rate and what not you could use to number crunch for this challenge though if you wanted to. Here are two screenshots showing the fuel rods melting at 2911K vs not melting at 2910K. To make the challenge easier you could just say reach meltdown then reduce coolant temp by an extra 10 degrees I guess if you don't want to dig up formulas (I have been avoiding this challenge due to this ambiguity myself). Where can I view the reactor temperature? Or is it unavailable?
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Post by jasonvance on May 8, 2017 7:45:51 GMT
That is because the temp values listed show the coolant's temp, not the reactor's temp. On my reactors that are a few mili-K away from meltdown the coolant temp leaving the reactor is only 2910 K. That means the reactor is right at 3140K and the flow rate at 2910K is enough to keep continuing to rise. But if your coolant flow off the reactor reads 2910K that does not mean your fuel rod temp is 2910K. I'm sure there is a formula with thermal conductivity of the coolant / fuel rods / flow rate and what not you could use to number crunch for this challenge though if you wanted to. Here are two screenshots showing the fuel rods melting at 2911K vs not melting at 2910K. To make the challenge easier you could just say reach meltdown then reduce coolant temp by an extra 10 degrees I guess if you don't want to dig up formulas (I have been avoiding this challenge due to this ambiguity myself). Where can I view the reactor temperature? Or is it unavailable? It is clearly being calculated by some formula, but sadly it isn't displayed to the user (as far as I know at least if someone has some trick to get the fuel rod temp to display I'm all ears). Also if there is a wild Qswitched reading it would be nice info to have for people designing reactors so we don't have to slowly inch up until we get the error then back off in fractions of steps to close in on the melting point (one of the more tedious parts of building reactors that could be solved or at least assisted with this value displayed).
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Post by apophys on May 11, 2017 12:21:55 GMT
I do like how over half of those pertaining to the challenge are mine but I never get credit (there are also 100MW ones further down in the post but the thread owner kind of disappeared) Your upgrades were never edited into the original post, since tessfield disappeared before then. So the listed reactors have correct authors.
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Post by Rocket Witch on May 15, 2017 5:21:51 GMT
This doesn't at all meet the requirements laid out in the OP but I figure anyone coming here looking for a realistic/safe reactor would be interested. It was designed with dimensions similar to the stock 13.5MW in mind, generally to be used in a pair per ship in a more realistic fleet I wanna put together. - Criticality constant is centred on a moderate margin. - Lead-bismuth coolant is safer than sodium due to both a much higher boiling point and density stopping more gamma radiation. - Moderator comes pre-graphitised (diamond moderators may decompose into this at operating temps and provide insufficient mass). - 50% enriched fuel 'cause we're the military damnit. It is reasonably short of being a bomb though; far as I know weapons-grade is >70%. - There is actually a neutron reflector! Bask in its glory. - Silicon nitride inner pump probably won't react too much with the coolant, I'm not certain, but it's better than using raw carbon. - LCP outer pump is more rigid than PE and could better handle water temperature fluctuations, without being a big heavy thing made of steel or waspaloy. - Speaking of water, that's the outer coolant. May as well do something with the dishwater while you're not using it! - 2000K outlet won't sublimate carbon radiators in vacuum (~2200K limit). - The only bad thing about it is the thermocouple being at stress limits, but you can just make it a bit taller if you want. (*´︶`*) Code: ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 25MW Thermoelectric Reactor UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.13 0.05 NuclearReactor Coolant Lead-Bismuth Eutectic Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 4.92 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.5 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 0.75 NeutronReflector Boron Carbide ReflectorThickness_m 0.2153 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.2e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Silicon Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.435 RotationalSpeed_RPM 263 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1.25 4.86 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Molybdenum NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2000 OuterCoolant Water OuterTurbopump Composition Liquid Crystal Polymer PumpRadius_m 0.85 RotationalSpeed_RPM 228
Comparison with stock reactor of similar design (Mo-Ta thermocouple, metal coolant, 2000K outlet): There's also a stock version using mercury, which apparently was used as a reactor coolant in reality for the same reasons as the lead-bismuth alloy that superceded it (dense so it stops gamma radiation, metal so it doesn't interfere with neutrons). Also the outer pump is made of PE instead of LCP. Code: ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 25MW Thermoelectric Reactor STOCK UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.13 0.05 NuclearReactor Coolant Mercury Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 4.92 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.5 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 0.75 NeutronReflector Boron Carbide ReflectorThickness_m 0.2164 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.21e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Silicon Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.435 RotationalSpeed_RPM 263 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1.25 5.13 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Molybdenum NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2000 OuterCoolant Water OuterTurbopump Composition Polyethylene PumpRadius_m 0.85 RotationalSpeed_RPM 228
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Post by The Astronomer on May 15, 2017 5:39:13 GMT
This doesn't at all meet the requirements laid out in the OP but I figure anyone coming here looking for a realistic/safe reactor would be interested. It was designed with dimensions similar to the stock 13.5MW in mind, generally to be used in a pair per ship in a more realistic fleet I wanna put together. - Criticality constant is centred on a moderate margin. - Lead-bismuth coolant is safer than sodium due to both a much higher boiling point and density stopping more gamma radiation. - Moderator comes pre-graphitised (diamond moderators may decompose into this at operating temps and provide insufficient mass). - 50% enriched fuel 'cause we're the military damnit. It is reasonably short of being a bomb though; far as I know weapons-grade is >70%. - There is actually a neutron reflector! Bask in its glory. - Silicon nitride inner pump probably won't react too much with the coolant, I'm not certain, but it's better than using raw carbon. - LCP outer pump is more rigid than PE and could better handle water temperature fluctuations, without being a big heavy thing made of steel or waspaloy. - Speaking of water, that's the outer coolant. May as well do something with the dishwater while you're not using it! - 2000K outlet won't sublimate carbon radiators in vacuum (~2200K limit). - The only bad thing about it is the thermocouple being at stress limits, but you can just make it a bit taller if you want. (*´︶`*) Code: ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 25MW Thermoelectric Reactor UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.13 0.05 NuclearReactor Coolant Lead-Bismuth Eutectic Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 4.92 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.5 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 0.75 NeutronReflector Boron Carbide ReflectorThickness_m 0.2153 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.2e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Silicon Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.435 RotationalSpeed_RPM 263 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1.25 4.86 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Molybdenum NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2000 OuterCoolant Water OuterTurbopump Composition Liquid Crystal Polymer PumpRadius_m 0.85 RotationalSpeed_RPM 228
Comparison with stock reactor of similar design (Mo-Ta thermocouple, metal coolant, 2000K outlet): There's also a stock version using mercury, which apparently was used as a reactor coolant in reality for the same reasons as the lead-bismuth alloy that superceded it (dense so it stops gamma radiation, metal so it doesn't interfere with neutrons). Also the outer pump is made of PE instead of LCP. Code: ThermoelectricFissionReactorModule 25MW Thermoelectric Reactor STOCK UsesCustomName true ReactorCoreDimensions_m 0.13 0.05 NuclearReactor Coolant Mercury Moderator Graphite ModeratorMass_kg 4.92 Fuel U-233 Dioxide FuelMass_kg 1 FuelEnrichment_Percent 0.5 ControlRodComposition Boron Nitride ControlRodMass_kg 0.75 NeutronReflector Boron Carbide ReflectorThickness_m 0.2164 AverageNeutronFlux__m2_s 1.21e+020 InnerTurbopump Composition Silicon Nitride PumpRadius_m 0.435 RotationalSpeed_RPM 263 ThermocoupleInnerDimensions_m 1.25 5.13 Thermocouple PTypeComposition Molybdenum NTypeComposition Tantalum Length_m 0.001 ThermocoupleExitTemperature_K 2000 OuterCoolant Water OuterTurbopump Composition Polyethylene PumpRadius_m 0.85 RotationalSpeed_RPM 228
Fuel enrichment: okay... Apparently the nuclear reactors on the US submarines are around 93% enriched... For Russians it's 20-40%.
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Post by apophys on May 15, 2017 7:12:29 GMT
To give a reactor a meltdown safety margin, just drop the outlet temperature (like, by 100 K). That's literally all you need to do. It will provide its rated power regardless of theoretical temperature fluctuations.
For great realism, the outer turbo should be swapped to amorphous carbon, so it won't melt on an error.
Neutron flux limits don't make much sense as far as I can tell. Just shield thicker. Boron nitride is fine shielding on the reactor, but lithium-6 & boron external is best. My 1 GW+ reactors come with fine shielding already - the game lets me put one right next to a thin plastic crew module.
Fuel enrichment limits also don't really make sense, as American nuclear subs show.
On the topic of coolant, I want liquid aluminum in the base game. Sodium would be at unrealistically high pressures to keep it liquid. Due to being above its critical temperature, sodium would also lose its thermal conductivity, which is the reason for its use.
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