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Post by Rocket Witch on Apr 23, 2017 17:09:11 GMT
As we are all aware, CDE doesn't account for all the things that spontaneously explode in contact with each other, so I'm hoping to be able to compile a list of ingame materials that shouldn't be put together, and in the case of fluorine list the few things it is safe with. This list is primarily concerned with things that just can't coexist within any reasonable space of time, so for example an iron water tank would be considered acceptable and not be listed. Note also that currently the list is only concerned with stock materials, and only those that are able to come into direct contact with each other in module design. This list is likely to be incomplete; contributions are welcome. FluorineFluorine is so reactive that only materials safe with it are listed.- Aluminum & oxide (at low temperatures). - Aluminum nitride. - Polytetrafluoroethylene. - Steels (up to 470K). - Nickel. OxidizersIncludes: Oxygen, Ethylene Oxide, Hydrogen Peroxide.- Reactive with all metals to varing degrees; most will form a passivating layer but alkali metals in particular will not. - Neptunium, Uranium, Plutonium are pyrophoric, making oxidizers unsuitable as reactor and RTG coolants. Alkali MetalsIncludes: Lithium, Sodium, Potassium.- Vigorous reaction with water, acids, oxidizers. HydrocarbonsIncludes: Methane, Ethane, Propane, Butane, Pentane, Decane, RP-1.- Will be absorbed by and corrode some polymers (polyethylene, UHMWPE). Mercury- Will amalgamate with most metals over time. Exceptions include iron, platinum, tungsten, tantalum. Ammonia- Relatively slow reaction with copper.
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Post by n2maniac on Apr 23, 2017 19:40:20 GMT
Very incomplete off-the-top-of-my-head scan:
Liquids with issues
Hydrogen peroxide - Oxidizer, Likes to decompose in the presence of the right salts (read: contaminants) Nitrogen dioxide - Oxidizer Nitrogen trifluoride - some similar handling concerns to fluorine Chlorine - Oxidizer
Metals with issues: Alkali metals: vigorous reactions with water, acids, oxidizers (not sure about cyrogenic oxidizers), slowly with ammonia, possibly incompatible with halocarbons (some evidence they react vigorously)
Slow problems (probably okay for something intermittently handling it, but not for months of storage or precision surfaces (turbopump blades)): Hydrogen fluoride - acid, likes to dissolve things (including glass), okay with a wide variety of materials that passivate (and thus could be as a thin tank liner) Mercury - will amalgamate & dissolve most metals. Iron is one of the few it is okay with long term. Ammonia - copper (though it takes some time)
Questionable but I don't have evidence: Oxide ceramics and liquid sodium at high temperature - sodium likes oxygen better than most materials (eg. uranium), it should erode the oxide quickly
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Post by newageofpower on Apr 23, 2017 20:11:40 GMT
Further increase in need for encapsulated fuel. Liquid Lithium is a superior coolant compared to Sodium, but issues remain with reactivity.
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Post by nerd1000 on Apr 24, 2017 1:46:52 GMT
Polyethylene, Nitrile Rubber and most other hydrogen/carbon based plastics are incompatible with low molar mass liquid hydrocarbons, as the plastic will be dissolved.
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 24, 2017 2:30:51 GMT
FOOF (Dioxygen Diflouride) and litteraly everything
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Post by someusername6 on Apr 24, 2017 2:50:05 GMT
FOOF (Dioxygen Diflouride) and litteraly everything Pretty sure the context here is only materials found in game or modded in.
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 24, 2017 2:51:33 GMT
FOOF (Dioxygen Diflouride) and litteraly everything Pretty sure the context here in only materials found in game or modded in. I am going to mod it in (maybe), it goes BOOM when it touches something, even at -300c
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Post by n2maniac on Apr 24, 2017 10:01:26 GMT
Polyethylene, Nitrile Rubber and most other hydrogen/carbon based plastics are incompatible with low molar mass liquid hydrocarbons, as the plastic will be dissolved. Ooh, good one I forgot, though not necessarily as bad as you stated (most modern gas/petrol cans are plastic, and PE is relatively good at this).
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Post by nerd1000 on Apr 24, 2017 10:05:16 GMT
Polyethylene, Nitrile Rubber and most other hydrogen/carbon based plastics are incompatible with low molar mass liquid hydrocarbons, as the plastic will be dissolved. Ooh, good one I forgot, though not necessarily as bad as you stated (most modern gas/petrol cans are plastic, and PE is relatively good at this). I think you're right about PE resisting solvents. Also some plastics don't get dissolved but will become brittle or absorb the liquid and swell up (I think nitrile rubber might be in the latter category).
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Post by subunit on Apr 24, 2017 14:53:33 GMT
Is there some way to represent these incompatibilities in-game? Maybe a new error class could be added, even if it's not populated with any instances for the stock game.
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Post by bigbombr on Apr 24, 2017 16:31:57 GMT
Is there some way to represent these incompatibilities in-game? Maybe a new error class could be added, even if it's not populated with any instances for the stock game. Especially if the game takes time of exposure into account. So what if the nozzle of my missiles weakens and fails after 7 hours of continuous burning if the missile has a burn time less than 2 minutes. For anything like fuel tanks, the threshold should reasonably be 6 months, like our reactor fuel.
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Post by RiftandRend on Apr 26, 2017 10:36:37 GMT
Supposedly Nickel also works for fluorine tanks.
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Post by RiftandRend on Apr 26, 2017 10:38:19 GMT
Pretty sure the context here in only materials found in game or modded in. I am going to mod it in (maybe), it goes BOOM when it touches something, even at -300c -300 degrees C is below absolute 0.
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 26, 2017 12:19:59 GMT
I am going to mod it in (maybe), it goes BOOM when it touches something, even at -300c -300 degrees C is below absolute 0. ok you got me, I meant ~-150ish, I was somewhat tired when I wrote it and you get the point, it burns things even when its frozen
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Post by newageofpower on Apr 27, 2017 14:32:45 GMT
I believe plating everything in PTFE would get around many issues ;p
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