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Post by nerd1000 on Apr 5, 2017 0:06:04 GMT
getting a CTD with Zubrol in the files when trying to make a Nuclear Thermal Rocket Mine works fine. Performance as NTR propellant is generally worse than water FYI, and the engine makes the same giant plume (just red because its colder). I suspect that the reason for this is that the game doesn't account for density when rendering the exhaust plume, only temperature. The Zubrol exhaust contains uranium that takes a long time to cool off- I can believe that the gas from a NSWR really does stay that hot even after travelling so far from the nozzle, but in reality it would be so diffuse that you wouldn't see the emissions. |
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 5, 2017 2:27:46 GMT
nope, just clicking on the "New NTR" button caused a crash to desktop, although I thought about a Nuclear Thermal Nuclear Salt Water Rocket (or NTNSWR)
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Post by samchiu2000 on Apr 5, 2017 11:15:25 GMT
Guy I just find something. I look into the project rho NSWR page and I find out that the 90% HEU version have only one assumption different from the 20% versions by nerd1000 : the fuel burn efficiency is 90% instead of .1%. Is that mean that we only need to multiple to specific energy of the fuel by 900 times？ BTW thanks nerd1000 again since all the awesome reactions in this forum are done by him , and it seems that he did quite a lot of research on the reactions. |
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Post by samchiu2000 on Apr 5, 2017 15:35:26 GMT
I put Zubrol in the fluids folder Can you show me how? I really can't do it due to the nasty format... |
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 5, 2017 18:32:35 GMT
I just pasted it in, in the first open line, nothing seemed to go wrong save for the CTD with making new NTRs
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Post by leerooooooy on Apr 5, 2017 18:40:29 GMT
I just pasted it in, in the first open line, nothing seemed to go wrong save for the CTD with making new NTRs in my experience you need to past the fuel into one file and the chemical reaction into another for the game to recognize them properly |
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Post by Enderminion on Apr 5, 2017 19:26:47 GMT
well yeah I put the reaction in the reactions folder, the Zubrol itself into the fluids folder
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Post by RiftandRend on Apr 5, 2017 22:15:20 GMT
I present D-T fusion, albeit without neutrons.
Material Tritium Fuel
Elements T
ElementCount 2
Density_kg__m3 220
EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol 34462833
GibbsFreeEnergyOfFormation_kJ__mol 34462833
MeltingPoint_K 20.62
BoilingPoint_K 25.04
ThermalConductivity_W__m_K .13007
SpecificHeat_J__kg_K 5200
Viscosity_Pa_s 1.77e-4
RefractiveIndex Hydrogen
Dissociation
Products Monatomic Tritium
ProductCounts 1
Material Tritium Exhaust
Elements T
ElementCount 1
Density_kg__m3 220
EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol 233.403
BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 0
GibbsFreeEnergyOfFormation_kJ__mol 0
MeltingPoint_K 20.62
BoilingPoint_K 25.04
ThermalConductivity_W__m_K .13007
SpecificHeat_J__kg_K 10327.18
Viscosity_Pa_s 1.77e-4
RefractiveIndex Hydrogen
Dissociation
Products Monatomic Tritium
ProductCounts 1
Material Monatomic Tritium
Elements T
ElementCount 1
Density_kg__m3 220
EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol 225.403
BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 0
GibbsFreeEnergyOfFormation_kJ__mol 150.788
SpecificHeat_J__kg_K 10327.18
RefractiveIndex Hydrogen
ChemicalReaction D-T Fusion
Reactants Deuterium Tritium fuel
ReactantCounts 12 12
Products Helium Tritium Exhaust Hydrogen Helium-3
ProductCounts 6 4 2 2
ActivationEnergy_kJ__mol 5685
AutoignitionTemperature_K 153000000
CharacteristicLength_m 1.27
This assumes a 2-2-1 ratio of D-T, D-D, and D-D to He-3 fusion.
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Post by RiftandRend on Apr 5, 2017 23:05:28 GMT
Imagine the amount of coolant required to carry away terawatts or petawatts of heat and the square kilometers of radiators it would take ... if your chamber somehow manages to survive. Usually these concepts rely on some way to prevent most of the heat from reaching the ship in the first place. You can have the reaction happen some distance away from the ship (such as with an Orion drive) or you can use an open magnetic nozzle. One idea I like is a magnetic nozzle where the magnet loop is protected by a circular blade facing the reaction, very sharp at the tip and extending at about 3 degrees from there to the magnet loop. The idea is that at that angle the blade will reflect most x-rays. You let like 99% of the heat fly directly to space, but you still have copious amounts of waste heat to deal with. But it does make it more feasible. A point about Orion: Though it doesn't have serious issues with heat, it still has the same fundamental issue of coupling a very high energy reaction to the ship in a constructive manner. It's just not in the form of radiation, but kinetic energy. If the propellant hitting the pusher comes in too fast with too much energy you will no longer have a pusher plate. This is actually what limits the performance of the Orion, and why there's such a huge gulf between practical designs and the theoretical maximum. Available energy is not the issue - you can scale the yield of the nukes almost arbitrarily high - having the ship survive it is. I am not building terawatt level engines. At most mine are in the high GW range. At these relatively low levels cooling systems should be perfectly viable. |
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Post by samchiu2000 on Apr 5, 2017 23:10:14 GMT
I just pasted it in, in the first open line, nothing seemed to go wrong save for the CTD with making new NTRs Oh THX and I may try it later~ |
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Post by nerd1000 on Apr 5, 2017 23:24:19 GMT
I present D-T fusion, albeit without neutrons. Material Tritium Fuel
Elements T
ElementCount 1
Density_kg__m3 220
EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol 48065319
GibbsFreeEnergyOfFormation_kJ__mol 48065319
MeltingPoint_K 20.62
BoilingPoint_K 25.04
ThermalConductivity_W__m_K .13007
SpecificHeat_J__kg_K 5200
Viscosity_Pa_s 1.77e-4
RefractiveIndex Hydrogen
Dissociation
Products Monatomic Tritium
ProductCounts 1
Material Tritium Exhaust
Elements T
ElementCount 1
Density_kg__m3 220
EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol 233.403
BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 0
GibbsFreeEnergyOfFormation_kJ__mol 0
MeltingPoint_K 20.62
BoilingPoint_K 25.04
ThermalConductivity_W__m_K .13007
SpecificHeat_J__kg_K 10327.18
Viscosity_Pa_s 1.77e-4
RefractiveIndex Hydrogen
Dissociation
Products Monatomic Tritium
ProductCounts 1
Material Monatomic Tritium
Elements T
ElementCount 1
Density_kg__m3 220
EnthalpyOfFormation_kJ__mol 225.403
BondDissociationEnergy_kJ__mol 0
GibbsFreeEnergyOfFormation_kJ__mol 150.788
SpecificHeat_J__kg_K 10327.18
RefractiveIndex HydrogenChemicalReaction D-T Fusion
Reactants Deuterium Tritium fuel
ReactantCounts 6 6
Products Helium Tritium Exhaust Hydrogen
ProductCounts 5 1 4
ActivationEnergy_kJ__mol 5685
AutoignitionTemperature_K 153000000
CharacteristicLength_m 1.27
This assumes a 5-1 ratio of D-T to D-D fusion with the hydrogen acting as both itself and a stand-in for neutrons. Having hydrogen stand in as neutrons will make the engine overperform quite considerably. In reality the neutrons will mostly go hurtling through the walls of the engine and out into space, wheras the game will treat the hydrogen you've got subbing for it as a gas that can be ejected out the exhaust. D-T also puts most of the energy into the neutron, so we need a correction factor so that the engine only gets to use the energy that ends up in the He-4. |
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Post by nerd1000 on Apr 5, 2017 23:25:43 GMT
nope, just clicking on the "New NTR" button caused a crash to desktop, although I thought about a Nuclear Thermal Nuclear Salt Water Rocket (or NTNSWR) This is really weird, because mine is alright. Are you using the mods folder in appdata? |
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Post by RiftandRend on Apr 5, 2017 23:30:12 GMT
I am not considering any of the energy that would go into the neutrons, only the remaining 20% in the He-4, He-3, H-3, and H-1. I guess removing the extra hydrogen would be alright if neutrons have as little influence as you say they do. |
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Post by RiftandRend on Apr 5, 2017 23:44:45 GMT
nope, just clicking on the "New NTR" button caused a crash to desktop, although I thought about a Nuclear Thermal Nuclear Salt Water Rocket (or NTNSWR) This is really weird, because mine is alright. Are you using the mods folder in appdata? It's broken for me as well, though not much of an issue. |
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Post by samchiu2000 on Apr 5, 2017 23:48:40 GMT
This is really weird, because mine is alright. Are you using the mods folder in appdata? It's broken for me as well, though not much of an issue. I have the same problem actually , and I still can't get the NSWR fuel right in the game. Somehow I can't use the NSWR fuel as the rocket modules using that reaction can't identified it as propellant... |
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